Recruitment 2023/2024 Warriors Recruitment DISCUSSION

[Blain]

Interesting dilemma. Fact is they can't just let him go. He could have cruised for 2 years doing the bare minimum to make the NSW Cup squad. Leaving early like that has to be a mutual decision or he's committed a serious offence that warrants instant dismissal which is very rare...

A family member wrote a thank you and apologized for inconvenience of Otukolo's "decision," so would have to assume he asked for a release.

Question mark on Kepu. If it was a attitude thing, could have been a mutual release, or the Warriors were fine to pay out a minimum wager.. Probably doesn't move the dial much for the 2023 cap regardless. They seem pretty release happy for 2021-23, there is probably a star player worth of payouts this season. Hopefully plenty of cap space for next year..

 

[brightman]

or he's committed a serious offence that warrants instant dismissal which is very rare...

I wondered if this was the case, then again it could be classic warriors management trying to make an example to his brother..

 

[mt.wellington]

A family member wrote a thank you and apologized for inconvenience of Otukolo's "decision," so would have to assume he asked for a release.

Question mark on Kepu. If it was a attitude thing, could have been a mutual release, or the Warriors were fine to pay out a minimum wager.. Probably doesn't move the dial much for the 2023 cap regardless. They seem pretty release happy for 2021-23, there is probably a star player worth of payouts this season. Hopefully plenty of cap space for next year..

Otukolo seems clear cut. Released.

You make a good point about the payout. Definitely another exit strategy. So 3 so far...

1. Fired
2. Released
3. Paid out

I hope we have our nosiness sated and found out the circumstances of Kina's release...

 

[Five&Last]

A family member wrote a thank you and apologized for inconvenience of Otukolo's "decision," so would have to assume he asked for a release.

Question mark on Kepu. If it was a attitude thing, could have been a mutual release, or the Warriors were fine to pay out a minimum wager.. Probably doesn't move the dial much for the 2023 cap regardless. They seem pretty release happy for 2021-23, there is probably a star player worth of payouts this season. Hopefully plenty of cap space for next year..

We would’ve had to pay Kepu out in full. We signed him to that contract and wanted him gone. Kepu is well within his rights to stay and he’s not going to just leave money on the table. It probably was only minimum contract so not too much damage done.

My question is where does that leave Lingi, assuming he was meeting the training standards set. Now he’s reportedly out for the season and probably has personal grievances with how his brother has been treated by the club.

As for Otukolo who knows what the story is. Whether he decided to leave or was pushed out like Kina.

 

[MC..]

We would’ve had to pay Kepu out in full. We signed him to that contract and wanted him gone. Kepu is well within his rights to stay and he’s not going to just leave money on the table. It probably was only minimum contract so not too much damage done.

My question is where does that leave Lingi, assuming he was meeting the training standards set. Now he’s reportedly out for the season and probably has personal grievances with how his brother has been treated by the club.

As for Otukolo who knows what the story is. Whether he decided to leave or was pushed out like Kina.

We may not of paid out Kepu. No one seems to know. Maybe he asked to be released because of a better opportunity else where.

 

[Five&Last]

We may not of paid out Kepu. No one seems to know. Maybe he asked to be released because of a better opportunity else where.

He was on a top 30 contract with his home town club which has absolutely no depth at his position. I very much doubt he had a better opportunity anywhere else

Plus George said on the radio he wasn’t meeting training standards, i.e. the club wanted him gone. Unless he too has struck up an aussie girlfriend, I’m pretty sure we paid him out.

 

[geepee]

End if the day if both are the same but. The twin we. Kept needs learn from his bros mistakes or his time will be up too and he's injured a lot more

 

[geepee]

The key to fixing it is to fix our junior development pathways. For three years, we've had no NSW Cup side or SG ball side. Don't underestimate the number of hungry developing players in Aus that never make first grade, but they're pushing hard.

In Aus, it's pretty common for young guns to spend 3-5 years in the younger grades or NSW Cup before debuting. And that's on top of excellent coaches and competition at every level from Under 8s up.

In NZ, we have what, 3,500 registered league players? In Aus it's more like 50k+. Easier to develop players with scale.

easily Fixx that though look to aussie feeder clubs

 

[mrblonde]

Hypothetically, you call out every shortcut he takes, and hold him to account. Training stops being fun pretty quick. Then you make it clear that if he doesn’t hit certain metrics he’ll be playing reserves all year, and won’t be part of the future of the club beyond his current contract. He goes away, thinks about it, stresses, gets angry, says something he shouldn’t. The accountability continues but now he’s offside with leading players. Then he decides the whole thing is making him unhappy and he’s never going to perform in that mindset, so he offers to leave if they pay him something for the rest of the year. All hypothetical, from what I’ve heard happen at other clubs.

Bear in mind their might also have been previous issues with Kona and/or other players and the Warriors were in We’re Not Gonna Take It mode.
What people do in “Football Manager”-type games: Slag off a player in public, fine him for poor performance, train him hard in a position he’s not suited for, play him in that position for one game and sub him at half time after he inevitably sucks, you slag him off at half time in front of the team and after the game put him on the transfer list for really low money and then it’s back to the first step of slagging him off on public etc etc. Shouldn’t be long before he’s very amenable to a mutual termination of his contract. And people say video games aren’t realistic.

 

[TeetsNRL]

easily Fixx that though look to aussie feeder clubs

Get a couple over for the SG Ball/Flegg teams every year, can be the yardstick at trainings for the local kids.

Only problem is if they end up any good they’ll end up “home sick.”

 

[Juno]

We would’ve had to pay Kepu out in full. We signed him to that contract and wanted him gone. Kepu is well within his rights to stay and he’s not going to just leave money on the table. It probably was only minimum contract so not too much damage done.

My question is where does that leave Lingi, assuming he was meeting the training standards set. Now he’s reportedly out for the season and probably has personal grievances with how his brother has been treated by the club.

As for Otukolo who knows what the story is. Whether he decided to leave or was pushed out like Kina.

Ever seen an nrl contract? There's outs for the player and the club that give whichever party the ability to terminate a contract. In regards to the clubs position (and by default the player) if you don't meet the basic KPI's, bring the club into disrepute in certain ways, break the law, break some terms of the contract etc you can be gone without payout. If you meet the terms of the contract & they want you gone for a reason not in the contract, they have to pay you out in whatever terms that apply according to the contract. That's not to say the player and the club can't part ways on otherwise mutually agreed terms.
Both sides have protections and risks. A payout is not automatic, it depends on the situation.

 

[Five&Last]

Ever seen an nrl contract? There's outs for the player and the club that give whichever party the ability to terminate a contract. In regards to the clubs position (and by default the player) if you don't meet the basic KPI's, bring the club into disrepute in certain ways, break the law, break some terms of the contract etc you can be gone without payout. If you meet the terms of the contract & they want you gone for a reason not in the contract, they have to pay you out in whatever terms that apply according to the contract. That's not to say the player and the club can't part ways on otherwise mutually agreed terms.
Both sides have protections and risks. A payout is not automatic, it depends on the situation.

I have seen an NRL contract and can confirm that you can’t terminate it just based on KPIs not being met. Players wouldn’t be willing to subject themselves to that kind of danger before signing. It’s not really comparable to breaking the law or bringing the game into disrepute

If you sign someone, you’re obviously taking a risk. There’s no safety nets. Just like there’s a risk on the players behalf that they might outperform that contract and be stuck on that same salary until it finishes.

Maybe it might be different for a train and trial like what Ash Taylor had but not a multi-year top 30 contract. And from what I’ve heard the KPI’s Taylor had in his contract, Kepu still would’ve been able to meet if he was 20kg overweight.

 

[Damo]

I have seen an NRL contract and can confirm that you can’t terminate it just based on KPIs not being met. Players wouldn’t be willing to subject themselves to that kind of danger before signing. It’s not really comparable to breaking the law or bringing the game into disrepute

If you sign someone, you’re obviously taking a risk. There’s no safety nets. Just like there’s a risk on the players behalf that they might outperform that contract and be stuck on that same salary until it finishes.

Maybe it might be different for a train and trial like what Ash Taylor had but not a multi-year top 30 contract. And from what I’ve heard the KPI’s Taylor had in his contract, Kepu still would’ve been able to meet if he was 20kg overweight.

That still doesn't mean Kepu will be paid out, it could have been a mutual decision like Juno said.

 

[Chchfanatic]

Signings used to happen on Wednesday. Wonder if that’s still the case

 

[Juno]

I have seen an NRL contract and can confirm that you can’t terminate it just based on KPIs not being met. Players wouldn’t be willing to subject themselves to that kind of danger before signing. It’s not really comparable to breaking the law or bringing the game into disrepute

If you sign someone, you’re obviously taking a risk. There’s no safety nets. Just like there’s a risk on the players behalf that they might outperform that contract and be stuck on that same salary until it finishes.

Maybe it might be different for a train and trial like what Ash Taylor had but not a multi-year top 30 contract. And from what I’ve heard the KPI’s Taylor had in his contract, Kepu still would’ve been able to meet if he was 20kg overweight.

You can be terminated for not meeting kpis (possibly the wrong term for a sportsperson) if you consistently and wilfully don't try to. There's an expectation in contracts that each party does that - if the club doesn't meet theirs the player has leverage and vice versa.
Coming back overweight isn't necessarily a kpi even if you've been asked not to. Refusing to get with the programme once you're 'at work' could well be. Not saying that's what happened here cos I don't know.
A good agent makes sure the contract protects a player but the clubs have protections written in too.

 

[ajofbrisbane]

I can't see any movement/signings until the CBA is sorted, and who knows when that will be.

 

[Damo]

Ukraine about to get a heap of tanks, Germany to send 14 plus allow other countries to send them plus a US announcement coming to send a 'significant number'

Tanks? We are pretty short for props I suppose.

 

[Warriorshopeful]

Tanks? We are pretty short for props I suppose.

Wrong thread hahahaha

 

[Five&Last]

You can be terminated for not meeting kpis (possibly the wrong term for a sportsperson) if you consistently and wilfully don't try to. There's an expectation in contracts that each party does that - if the club doesn't meet theirs the player has leverage and vice versa.
Coming back overweight isn't necessarily a kpi even if you've been asked not to. Refusing to get with the programme once you're 'at work' could well be. Not saying that's what happened here cos I don't know.
A good agent makes sure the contract protects a player but the clubs have protections written in too.

Okay what you're now describing sounds like disciplinary action. 'Refusing to get with the programme' and 'willfully not trying'. Even then that’s almost impossible grounds to argue. I’m sure every club would argue their most overpaid player isn’t trying.

That's very different to failing some fitness KPI's which sounds more likely from what George said in that interview. I've never seen that alone as grounds to be able to terminate a contract with nil financial repercussions.

But coming from someone who's seen a lot of player contracts through club audits, we can just agree to disagree.

 

[1995Warriorsfan]

The reason why Taniela Otukolo walked out on Warriors, as club's recruitment steps up​

David Long14:21, Jan 25 2023 - Stuff NZ

Former Warriors hooker Taniela Otukolo is looking to rebuild his footy career in the Queensland Cup after getting a release from the NRL club, while the Warriors have four spots on the roster to fill.

The 20-year-old, who played nine games in the NRL over the past two seasons, was regarded as the club’s future in the No 9 jersey.

When he had his contract upgraded at the end of the 2021 to become part of the club’s 30-man squad, the then Warriors hard coach, Nathan Brown spoke about his bright future at the club.

“Taniela has worked really hard and gained invaluable experience in the NRL this year,” Brown said at the time.

“He had only just turned 19 when he made his debut this year and might have had a few more games but for injury.”

However, it was announced on Friday that he and 20-year-old prop Otukinekina Kepu had been given releases.

Given that the Warriors didn’t have a reserve grade team for the past few seasons due to Covid, few of the club’s fans would have known much about Kepu.

But Otukolo’s departure has raised eyebrows as he had looked handy in his NRL appearances.

Part of the reason why Otukolo asked for a release because he didn’t feel he’d get enough opportunities this year as he dropped down the pecking order last season.

Otukolo informed the club he wanted to take a break from footy, but Stuff understands he is relocating to Brisbane will play for a Queensland Cup team.

When the Warriors signed Freddy Lussick from the Roosters last year as a replacement for Kodi Nikorima, Otukolo’s future at the Warriors looked uncertain.

It was no surprise that Nikorima was given a release for a mid-season move to the Rabbitohs, he didn’t want to be at the club and he’d continually under-delivered.

But when Lussick joined the Warriors, initially on a season long deal, then through to the end 2024, it was clear Otukolo was no longer the No 2 hooker.

For the remainder of the season that turned out to be the case and it appeared this would also be the situation this year. Otukolo will now have to prove himself in the Queensland Cup that he deserves to be offered a contract by another NRL club.

The departures of Otukolo and Kepu means there are four empty spots on the Warriors’ 30-man roster.

Clubs must have at least 28 players on their rosters by the first Monday in March and while Warriors management are actively looking at players, they won’t get involved in any panic buys.

Otukolo and Kepu were both towards the bottom end of the Warriors’ top 30. Particularly with players on those sorts of salaries, the club would rather promote from within, rather than sign players from other clubs and they do want to have flexibility to promote someone who is standing out at a lower level.

However, this is more of a long-term philosophy and it is going to take time to rebuild the pathways after three years without reserve grade or junior teams, because of Covid.

High up the shopping list for the club is another middle forward or two. However, fans shouldn’t expect them to sign a marquee type player, but someone who could be relied on to do a good job in the minutes they get.

NRL trials are just around the corner and coaches will be firming up what their top 17 looks like.

There is player movement at this stage of the year, with some players realising they’re getting squeezed out and might not get as much game time as hoped, so ask for a release.

But the Warriors are being selective in who they’re going after, not just with how they play, but whether they’ll fit in at the club.

So more signings are coming for the Warriors and one or two of them might be soon, but they’ll be aimed at building depth in the squad, rather than acquiring a superstar.