General 2022 NRL Players - Mandatory Vaccine

J_P

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 4, 2020
965
Plenty in my industry have announced "No Jab No Job" policies. New employees must disclose or wont be hired. Current employees are better protected but for certain roles they will have to declare or be moved to different functions. I dont think there'll be too many alternative employers for Addin Fonua-Blake in either code anywhere in the world.
This is where Antivaxxers are gonna hit a wall. All fine to fight for your job and maybe even win a payout for your company terminating your contract but good luck finding a new job when almost all new contracts are gonna have clauses in them regarding having the vaccine.
 
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john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
3,455
tauranga
This is where Antivaxxers are gonna hit a wall. All fine to fight for your job and maybe even win a payout for your company terminating your contract but good luck finding a new job when almost every new contract are gonna have clauses in them regarding having the vaccine.
Exactly mate and other guys are going to say if I have to be vaccinated then why not our opposition
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,755
u probably all heard about the protests here in vic. were u aware that the reason they are protesting is because govt have announced they have to get vacci e to work on construction sites?
the CFMEU (construction union) is supporting the govt.
as each state gets to make ots own rules here in aus, it would only take one to pass a no jab, no play rule and all NRL players would be bound by it, even if they only visit.
add that to travel passports for internal flights. And i really cant see exemptions being given by the NRL.
 

matiunz

This year yet?
Contributor
Jul 15, 2013
8,796
Sydney
u probably all heard about the protests here in vic. were u aware that the reason they are protesting is because govt have announced they have to get vacci e to work on construction sites?
the CFMEU (construction union) is supporting the govt.
as each state gets to make ots own rules here in aus, it would only take one to pass a no jab, no play rule and all NRL players would be bound by it, even if they only visit.
add that to travel passports for internal flights. And i really cant see exemptions being given by the NRL.
Seems to be a variance in the Union between states also. Similar action was threatened in NSW but govt negotiated with the union and came to an agreement.
Community sport is looking like going the way of no jab no play also
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,397
Thanks Tajhay

Logically you would expect this to end up in court. And I would think that the court would rule in favour of the players and the NRL will have to back down and pay extensive damages and court costs for attempting this.

It sets too dangerous a precedent that an employer can fire someone for not taking a vaccine.

That basketball player in the post who has accepted his fate is following a path that surprises me He should have engaged a lawyer and filed an injuction a month or two ago.

Any lawyers on our message board who want to weigh in on this?
Are there any precedents or jurisprudence I am ignoring?
Historically the legal system in the West applies the principle of the greater good.

There is a strong historic precedent for Courts upholding vaccine mandates on the principle of protecting the public.

This is why the heavily conservative, Trump and GOP stacked US supreme court ruled in favour of vaccine mandates.

This is not the first rodeo. There have been multiple challenges in the past and they usually fail, which is why the twelve NZ servicemen and women challenging the vaccine mandate in the local courts, are also expected to fail on the principle of the greater good.

These are the same courts that say that your passive smoking is not your right when it impinges on the health and safety of others.

People talk about the seat belt rule, but the passive smoking example really goes to the core of the principle where your behaviour actually harms others...unlike a seat belt.

Unless there is some stunning reversal of the principle of the greater good in western legal ethics....then the players are screwed.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,397
u probably all heard about the protests here in vic. were u aware that the reason they are protesting is because govt have announced they have to get vacci e to work on construction sites?
the CFMEU (construction union) is supporting the govt.
as each state gets to make ots own rules here in aus, it would only take one to pass a no jab, no play rule and all NRL players would be bound by it, even if they only visit.
add that to travel passports for internal flights. And i really cant see exemptions being given by the NRL.

That is correct, people forget that the parliament is the highest court in the land and the creator of laws.
 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,397
The biggest worry from our squad would be Addin Fonua-Blake. I remember them discussing him on NRL360 when he was training with a mask on. His argument was he was taking precautions so he should be paid.

That was early on in the piece. Now that covid has impacted the competition for two years, stopped it last year and had the relocated this year. They have also gone through all of the protocols and the disruption that causes. Hopefully there will be more of an understanding of how important it is to get vaccinated and try and get back to normal.

We also had during the break last year players not wanting to be vaccinated despite the competition being stopped. Things being a bit more serious now with delta with higher case numbers and more deaths might make it hit a bit closer to home.

Mind you these are footballers not road scholars.

Our guys are doing Facebook posts/adverts about getting vaccinated so people can come home. So think most of our squad will be fine. They will be wanting to do what they can to get back home.

The coming home thing is another layer.

Our Govt is bringing in mandates for non citizens. So that is all our Aussie born players for starters....and the same applies to any home games if the bubble is reinstituted during next season and the Govt gives the NRL special dispensation to operate a team bubble so they can train and not self isolate....that part admittedly all gets a bit complicated.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,397
It all comes down to health and safety and limiting what is not essential.

NRL is not a high risk at a local level. Employment is a right and is essential. ie unless it is mandated that every person in employment anywhere needs the vaccine you cannot make a case that the NRL must have it on safety grounds at the local level. The NRL is not the front line.

However the NRL is not essential at an interstate level so I can see the argument to limit travel for the unvaccinated.

Think about the economics.

If Covid hits a club, the comp is disrupted for two weeks.

What choice, has the NRL as business but to mandate vaccines and to try to limit the spread of the virus within the competition, in the same way that clubs isolate players when they come down with the Flu or other infectious diseases.....the NRL must take all steps it can to protect their business model.

I will tell you one thing for certain. The players have no idea how dispensable they are in this scenario.

The NRL would happily get rid of any and all unvaccinated players, no matter how big a name they are....bring in some young guys who want a chance...and reset the entire competition and start from scratch.

Not one player is indispensable, when one individuals right to work puts the employment of an entire organisation at risk.
 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,397
Dr Ron Levy, an associate professor at the Australian National University’s college of law, said the legal prospects for people opposed to vaccine mandates was “quite poor”.

“I just don’t see a lot of limits, legally speaking,” he said. “People want to find them because they might strongly believe their freedoms are being constrained, but legally speaking they’re not going to find what they’re looking for.”

While some groups, including the Australian Human Rights Commission, have raised the prospect of discrimination laws affecting vaccine mandates, Levy said they could only apply in extremely limited cases since personal opposition to vaccines was not a form of discrimination.


“In very rare cases people might not able to have a vaccination for medical reasons so there could be an argument of discrimination on the basis of disability, but what is very, very likely is that any order or law is going to have exemptions for those sorts of people, anyway,” he said.

The legal landscape was less complicated in NSW, Levy said, because the state does not have a Human Rights Act. In the states and territories that do – Victoria, the ACT and Queensland – legislators would have to consider the human rights implications of any rules which limited access to places on the basis of vaccine status.
 
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wizards rage

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 18, 2016
5,116
Tauranga
What choice, has the NRL as business but to mandate vaccines and to try to limit the spread of the virus within the competition, in the same way that clubs isolate players when they come down with the Flu or other infectious diseases.....the NRL must take all steps it can to protect their business model.

Depends how we live with the virus. You would hope they won’t be shutting down the comp in future if players test positive, especially if you can still get and transmit the virus while fully vaccinated (just not get really unwell)

Is the future not that cases in the NRL are inevitable? That we live with the virus and isolate individual people as they get it?
Community sport is looking like going the way of no jab no play also
While pro jab, this scares me on a human rights level. I can see rampant defrauding of the system which may ultimately undermine the whole passport idea if we go this way. Like the US guy that’s had the vaccine 30 times under different names for other people.

It’s a flimsy system because there are no checks and balances on ID when getting jabbed. If the punishment is so severe it will simply be abused.
 

Rick O'Shay

Warriors 1st Grader
May 1, 2013
4,911
New Plymouth
Think about the economics.

If Covid hits a club, the comp is disrupted for two weeks.

What choice, has the NRL as business but to mandate vaccines and to try to limit the spread of the virus within the competition, in the same way that clubs isolate players when they come down with the Flu or other infectious diseases.....the NRL must take all steps it can to protect their business model.

I will tell you one thing for certain. The players have no idea how dispensable they are in this scenario.

The NRL would happily get rid of any and all unvaccinated players, no matter how big a name they are....bring in some young guys who want a chance...and reset the entire competition and start from scratch.

Not one player is indispensable, when one individuals right to work puts the employment of an entire organisation at risk.
This is a good point about player value. The whole context of player employment and worth could well be up for a total revamp. Guess this would apply to all codes.

When it comes to money in the pocket and food on the table some players may have to re-think their stance or look for a new career.

I like the idea of a NRL reset, many things they could and should attend to for the future prosperity and longevity of the game.

This may just be the opportunity to get going.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,397
Depends how we live with the virus. You would hope they won’t be shutting down the comp in future if players test positive, especially if you can still get and transmit the virus while fully vaccinated (just not get really unwell)

Is the future not that cases in the NRL are inevitable? That we live with the virus and isolate individual people as they get it?

While pro jab, this scares me on a human rights level. I can see rampant defrauding of the system which may ultimately undermine the whole passport idea if we go this way. Like the US guy that’s had the vaccine 30 times under different names for other people.

It’s a flimsy system because there are no checks and balances on ID when getting jabbed. If the punishment is so severe it will simply be abused.
The NRL will ask the players to provide better proof than a cardboard vaccination card, that much is clear.

Your argument about managing the virus does not take into account close contact in the literal sense. I am not talking the Govt definition of a close contact, I am referring to the very nature of a contact sport at its core.

This is therefore a very different work environment to scanning someone’s groceries from behind a perspex screen , it is even above the level of contact that medical workers have with patients.

Yet footballers are not going to wearing P.P.E. despite the intimate contact required by their work.

Delta is more infectious than Influenza.

This argument about living with the virus somehow manages to completely ignore the fact that Covid makes some people ill, and some of those seriously so. Yes in a vaccinated competition there will be outbreaks....but by what logic does that mean there should not be compulsion for something that is protective against that risk?


A young footballer is not going to die from Flu or need an organ transplant.

When there is a very effective safe guard against severe illness, it makes a mockery of the games safety laws around HIA's if people are allowed to engage in high risk behaviour when the risk is known and very clearly understood.
 
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wizards rage

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 18, 2016
5,116
Tauranga
Your argument about managing the virus does not take into account close contact in the literal sense. I am not talking the Govt definition of a close contact, I am referring to the very nature of a contact sport at its core.
Fundamentally is everyone going to get the virus eventually? Is the effort to protect everyone futile when the experts say everyone will eventually be exposed anyway?

So how do we allow that to happen? In Australia it seems to be when vaccination is above 80%. I don’t see the point of hardcore NRL restrictions on the field when they go home and 1/5 of the friends you hang out with after the game may have Covid.

I guess it’s about getting the balance right.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,397
Fundamentally is everyone going to get the virus eventually? Is the effort to protect everyone futile when the experts say everyone will eventually be exposed anyway?

So how do we allow that to happen? In Australia it seems to be when vaccination is above 80%. I don’t see the point of hardcore NRL restrictions on the field when they go home and 1/5 of the friends you hang out with after the game may have Covid.

I guess it’s about getting the balance right.

The controls from the NRLs POV are about managing the acute effects of viral illness, not the incidence rate of future infections.

The NRLs mandate is only seeking to protect the competition from too many sick people all at once.

The NRL do not care if the entire competition gets infected in the off season, what they are saying is that you are not going to do it during your work time at our expense thanks very much.
 
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J_P

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 4, 2020
965
I've heard this mentioned in this thread regarding a few players but what exactly are the religious reasons for not to be vaccinated (flu or covid)? Sounds like a bullshit copout excuse cause I couldn't find any religions that are prominent in the nrl being against any vaccinations. Hopefully the NRL makes them bring proof also not just the medically exempt ones.
 
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wizards rage

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 18, 2016
5,116
Tauranga
I've heard this mentioned in this thread regarding a few players but what exactly are the religious reasons for not to be vaccinated (flu or covid)? Sounds like a bullshit copout excuse cause I couldn't find any religions that are prominent in the nrl being against any vaccinations. Hopefully the NRL makes them bring proof also not just the medically exempt ones.
Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and Judaism have no prohibition on vaccines. Some Christian variants do have an objection to vaccines.

Some like Johovahs Witnesses don’t believe in putting anything in the body. They will sometimes choose to die before even having a blood transfusions.

Others twist pro life values, distort references to ‘the mark of the beast’ and make claims about gods will.

Most countries around the world have allowed exemptions to the vaccine on religious grounds. But there is the issue of if they are sincerely held beliefs or a out for antivaxers. How do authorities determine ‘sincere’ in such a claim?
 

Wrighty

1st Grade Fringe
May 26, 2021
900
Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and Judaism have no prohibition on vaccines. Some Christian variants do have an objection to vaccines.

Some like Johovahs Witnesses don’t believe in putting anything in the body. They will sometimes choose to die before even having a blood transfusions.

Others twist pro life values, distort references to ‘the mark of the beast’ and make claims about gods will.

Most countries around the world have allowed exemptions to the vaccine on religious grounds. But there is the issue of if they are sincerely held beliefs or a out for antivaxers. How do authorities determine ‘sincere’ in such a claim?
Haha
I was reading this and wondering who had given such a cogent and informative answer written in a way that was a pleasure to read, then I scrolled up and noticed it was my buddy wizards rage. Good post wizards excellent construct to your answer.:)
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,381
Thanks Tajhay

Logically you would expect this to end up in court. And I would think that the court would rule in favour of the players and the NRL will have to back down and pay extensive damages and court costs for attempting this.

It sets too dangerous a precedent that an employer can fire someone for not taking a vaccine.

That basketball player in the post who has accepted his fate is following a path that surprises me He should have engaged a lawyer and filed an injuction a month or two ago.

Any lawyers on our message board who want to weigh in on this?
Are there any precedents or jurisprudence I am ignoring?
It will depend on the terms of the contract. The NRL contracts are very tight, favouring the NRL and the club, not the player.

In the end with civil contracts it comes down to who can afford to pay the lawyers. Tony Kemp won his battle against the NZRL back in the day, but it cost him most of his contract money.

It has cost Jake DeBelin a fortune as well.

I think the Fat Lady has moved on.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,381
Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and Judaism have no prohibition on vaccines. Some Christian variants do have an objection to vaccines.

Some like Johovahs Witnesses don’t believe in putting anything in the body. They will sometimes choose to die before even having a blood transfusions.

Others twist pro life values, distort references to ‘the mark of the beast’ and make claims about gods will.

Most countries around the world have allowed exemptions to the vaccine on religious grounds. But there is the issue of if they are sincerely held beliefs or a out for antivaxers. How do authorities determine ‘sincere’ in such a claim?
Nothing in the NRL contract about it, you can bet on that.
 

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