Recruitment 2021 Warriors Recruitment DISCUSSION

AusWarriorsFan

1st Grade Fringe
Sep 4, 2016
2,714
Ok unrelated as well, but I gotta express my dissapointment in releasing Papali'i. He was touted as our best home grown forward in years, and sure he had a few issues, but so do many players starting at 18yo.

But one might suggest it was the club not the player, looking at where he is at footy wise now, hes considered part of one of the best forward packs and is getting a lot of praise.

So what went wrong and what can the club learn from it? Can the club learn from it?

Im so sick of seeing young players like Brandon Smith, even CNK who we bought, just so many players who are amongst the elite players coming from or being associated to the Warriors, perform outside the Warriors and never get a chance at the Warriors or are just dragged down by the culture of lose and go home put the feet up because there is no Media in NZ to hold us accountable.

Ok Im being a little emotive, but the list is long. Im fairly confident both Hayze and Turner are going to show the Warriors what they are capable of, for another team and that sucks,
 

BeastMode

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 7, 2015
8,188
Ok unrelated as well, but I gotta express my dissapointment in releasing Papali'i. He was touted as our best home grown forward in years, and sure he had a few issues, but so do many players starting at 18yo.

But one might suggest it was the club not the player, looking at where he is at footy wise now, hes considered part of one of the best forward packs and is getting a lot of praise.

So what went wrong and what can the club learn from it? Can the club learn from it?

Im so sick of seeing young players like Brandon Smith, even CNK who we bought, just so many players who are amongst the elite players coming from or being associated to the Warriors, perform outside the Warriors and never get a chance at the Warriors or are just dragged down by the culture of lose and go home put the feet up because there is no Media in NZ to hold us accountable.

Ok Im being a little emotive, but the list is long. Im fairly confident both Hayze and Turner are going to show the Warriors what they are capable of, for another team and that sucks,

Its simple.

We’re shit at developing players. That’s a fact.

The question is why????

And how do we change this???

The club knows. That is why they hired Gould.

My two cents. We need to win a premiership to change attitudes and culture , deeply embedded here.

Players feel like stars once they’ve signed and yet achieve nothing... The bar is too low. We accept mediocrity because that is all this club knows.

Until the premiership is won, nothing will change.
 

Uster101

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 25, 2020
312
Ok unrelated as well, but I gotta express my dissapointment in releasing Papali'i. He was touted as our best home grown forward in years, and sure he had a few issues, but so do many players starting at 18yo.

But one might suggest it was the club not the player, looking at where he is at footy wise now, hes considered part of one of the best forward packs and is getting a lot of praise.

So what went wrong and what can the club learn from it? Can the club learn from it?

Im so sick of seeing young players like Brandon Smith, even CNK who we bought, just so many players who are amongst the elite players coming from or being associated to the Warriors, perform outside the Warriors and never get a chance at the Warriors or are just dragged down by the culture of lose and go home put the feet up because there is no Media in NZ to hold us accountable.

Ok Im being a little emotive, but the list is long. Im fairly confident both Hayze and Turner are going to show the Warriors what they are capable of, for another team and that sucks,
Papalii was lazy. Never tried, but strangely got picked often by Kearney and then Payton. I was glad when he left. He was in a sense of "I do not have to try because they are picking me" Now at the Eels he has had to put in the effort and try to get picked to play as he can no longer take his place in a side for granted. We might have got better out of him if Kearney dropped him for being so useless and made him realise he needs to put in an effort to be a first grader. Hayze got plenty of chances yet showed nothing like the player they kept saying he was. With Turner, we never saw enough. These guys to force their way into the top team they needed to be better than players above them already playing first grade, and to be honest they Hayze etc were not better and only got a chance due to injuries etc. A team always needs these backup players, but chances of them staying are slim if they want to play first grade when they are not as good as other players in the side. Chances are you will not see Hayze or Turner in the top team for their new clubs either.
 

BeastMode

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 7, 2015
8,188
Papalii was lazy. Never tried, but strangely got picked often by Kearney and then Payton. I was glad when he left. He was in a sense of "I do not have to try because they are picking me" Now at the Eels he has had to put in the effort and try to get picked to play as he can no longer take his place in a side for granted. We might have got better out of him if Kearney dropped him for being so useless and made him realise he needs to put in an effort to be a first grader. Hayze got plenty of chances yet showed nothing like the player they kept saying he was. With Turner, we never saw enough. These guys to force their way into the top team they needed to be better than players above them already playing first grade, and to be honest they Hayze etc were not better and only got a chance due to injuries etc. A team always needs these backup players, but chances of them staying are slim if they want to play first grade when they are not as good as other players in the side. Chances are you will not see Hayze or Turner in the top team for their new clubs either.

pretty much.

attitude and desire

didn’t have it or seem to want it when he was here

his fault or the clubs?

fuck knows, probably both but entitlement is a serious problem

good to see brown make the tough calls on selection
 

Uster101

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 25, 2020
312
Its simple.

We’re shit at developing players. That’s a fact.

The question is why????

And how do we change this???

The club knows. That is why they hired Gould.

My two cents. We need to win a premiership to change attitudes and culture , deeply embedded here.

Players feel like stars once they’ve signed and yet achieve nothing... The bar is too low. We accept mediocrity because that is all this club knows.

Until the premiership is won, nothing will change.
The Warriors will never win a premiership - it's NSW competition. It was bad enough for the NRL when the
Its simple.

We’re shit at developing players. That’s a fact.

The question is why????

And how do we change this???

The club knows. That is why they hired Gould.

My two cents. We need to win a premiership to change attitudes and culture , deeply embedded here.

Players feel like stars once they’ve signed and yet achieve nothing... The bar is too low. We accept mediocrity because that is all this club knows.

Until the premiership is won, nothing will change.
We will never win the Competition. It's a NSW competition and it was bad enough when a team - The Broncos - from outside NSW won the competition. Could you imagine the fallout that would happen if the Warriors - A team from outside Australia - won. That is why the officials always shaft the warriors in games week in week out. The head of the refs apologising after each Warrior game is getting boring!
 

AusWarriorsFan

1st Grade Fringe
Sep 4, 2016
2,714
These guys to force their way into the top team they needed to be better than players above them already playing first grade, and to be honest they Hayze etc were not better and only got a chance due to injuries etc.

I agree re Papalii.

The below players though, I think they performed more than enough to get a shot at first grade.

Turner I think had more on offer in reserve grade than plenty of our lazy centres and wingers, even if he was a FB, he deserved a chance to show his speed and agility.

CNK, well that was just plain dumb, he was X factor in nearly every game and outside Nicho, he had one of the most obvious burning ambitions inside him. Again he definitely pushed for a spot and deserved a number of games at centre or wing to show what he could do.

Hayze Perham, again I think he clearly had more to offer than Tohu Harris as a HB. When the club had released all our half backs and then releases our number one HB and X factor player, then Green got Injured we were left with what many said was our best 5/8th ever and touted by SJ and RTS for his footwoork,, why the flap did we not play him and leave CHT at 7, Hayze at 6 and the team could have been left as is, and we likely would have won 2 of the 4 games we lost during that stupidity period. Not only that, but he had been pushing for that 5/8th spot week in week out, playing better than Kodi. Essentially Kodi blocked Hayze. I dont buy Hayze wasn't good enough. We can't play a guy for 10 minutes here and there at centre when he is our only listed 5/8th specialist in the club. That was a balls up by the coaches. For all we know Hayze could have been the 5/8th we needed Kodi to be, if you want lazy, look at what Kodi hasnt delivered over 2 years when it was clear he was asked to improve his passing game and his kicking game and if he can the individual line breaks. But he has regressed if anything. Hayze was bigger, faster, and has better foot work and I reckon we will see it under another coach.

Also is it possible the club was lazy? Was the coach lazy? We know George was getting involved in things he shouldnt have been and it was his fault Kodi was given a shot to be the half back he kept telling the Broncos he believed he was. But even so, could have been better had we wicked apart the obvious things he is missing and been less lazy in coaching him one on one.

Perhaps Lazy all round is the truth.

It's a NSW competition and it was bad enough when a team - The Broncos - from outside NSW won the competition. Could you imagine the fallout that would happen if the Warriors - A team from outside Australia - won.
This is why I believe we should be based in Australia and 1//4 or so games played in NZ. We are not getting anywhere being able to hide in NZ away from the media. Even through all this transition and coach shuffling, we have looked out best when based in Gosford. And dang those Coasties took us on, ugly, lazy and all, and supported us. You do not need to be based in NZ to get home fan support. And its plain as day to me its a shite load easier to be based in Aus for the club, along with the Coach and the Players being held accountable by the MASS media in NSW, not by maybe 20 seconds in the new "the warriors lose again" on TV1.

I know a lot of people will boo that, will hate the idea of not having the losing Warriors at Mt Smart (not even a footy ground), and only a handful of games played in NZ each year. But if we want to win one, I honestly think we need to be part of the Australian furniture. You do not need to be based in NZ to be a NZ team in the NRL. You just dont. We have proven that the last 2 seasons, this one we might even make the 8. Once we have won one, the rest as Beast points out will become easier. We damn well better win the 3rd chance

I think when asked about another NZ team it was obvious we should have said Yes, not the Warriors. Of course they said No, they dont want competition. But somebody smart enough could easily created a Central Coast NZ Ferns, or whatever you wanna call it. More NZ players will play for a NSW based team. More Australian players will play for a NZ based team. Its got nothing to do with it being a NZ team they hate. Its the fact the Warriors are not based in NSW and feel disjointed to the NRL. NZ players could easily fill another NZ team along with a lot of marquee Australian players. Provide the club culture, Coaching, scouting training, CEO and Owners all have the same desire, hard work and premierships.
 
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TheCool

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 18, 2013
1,562
Ok unrelated as well, but I gotta express my dissapointment in releasing Papali'i. He was touted as our best home grown forward in years, and sure he had a few issues, but so do many players starting at 18yo.

But one might suggest it was the club not the player, looking at where he is at footy wise now, hes considered part of one of the best forward packs and is getting a lot of praise.

So what went wrong and what can the club learn from it? Can the club learn from it?

Im so sick of seeing young players like Brandon Smith, even CNK who we bought, just so many players who are amongst the elite players coming from or being associated to the Warriors, perform outside the Warriors and never get a chance at the Warriors or are just dragged down by the culture of lose and go home put the feet up because there is no Media in NZ to hold us accountable.

Ok Im being a little emotive, but the list is long. Im fairly confident both Hayze and Turner are going to show the Warriors what they are capable of, for another team and that sucks,
A few reasons why.

I think we saw a glimpse of the main reason why in Reece Walsh’s recent interview. He was being made fun of by other players for watching and studying every NRL game.

Our senior players (maybe RTS aside) don’t have any real aspirations to be the best player in the game or win a premiership. That just doesn’t register with them. Maybe it’s personnel thing? Maybe it’s a club thing?

Our guys just don’t live and breath the game like other clubs do.

Because of that, there’s no real hierarchy at our club. Sure they might have a “leadership group” in place, but there’s no hierarchy where young players are forced to work hard and if they don’t work hard they will be held accountable to senior players. There’s just a culture of cruising from week to week.
 

AusWarriorsFan

1st Grade Fringe
Sep 4, 2016
2,714
It's a NSW competition and it was bad enough when a team - The Broncos - from outside NSW won the competition. Could you imagine the fallout that would happen if the Warriors - A team from outside Australia - won.
This is why I believe we should be based in Australia and 1//4 or so games played in NZ. We are not getting anywhere being able to hide in NZ away from the media. Even through all this transition and coach shuffling, we have looked out best when based in Gosford. And dang those Coasties took us on, ugly, lazy and all, and supported us. You do not need to be based in NZ to get home fan support. And its plain as day to me its a shite load easier to be based in Aus for the club, along with the Coach and the Players being held accountable by the MASS media in NSW, not by maybe 20 seconds in the new "the warriors lose again" on TV1.
A few reasons why.

\Maybe it’s a club thing?
Its most definitely a club problem. I think players doing a 180 in performance when joining other clubs proves that.

Again, this is why I think a NZ, NSW based team would succeed with the right staff but most importantly an ethos of striving to be our best and winning premierships consistently. You have to aim for the stars to reach the moon so to speak.

I know its not a popular opinion. But Im adament the seperation caused by being based in NZ, especially at a ground not many Aucklanders have easy access too and is a track and field stadium, is the main reason. We just hide away, game after game, to have any chance we needed somebody more like Toovey who would light fires under big forwards to get them motivated.

Look how hard it is for the Qld teams, if they create a 4th its only going to be harder. We needed a NZ, Australian based team. We have more supporters there than we do in NZ.
 
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BeastMode

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 7, 2015
8,188
This is why I believe we should be based in Australia and 1//4 or so games played in NZ. We are not getting anywhere being able to hide in NZ away from the media. Even through all this transition and coach shuffling, we have looked out best when based in Gosford. And dang those Coasties took us on, ugly, lazy and all, and supported us. You do not need to be based in NZ to get home fan support. And its plain as day to me its a shite load easier to be based in Aus for the club, along with the Coach and the Players being held accountable by the MASS media in NSW, not by maybe 20 seconds in the new "the warriors lose again" on TV1.

Its most definitely a club problem. I think players doing a 180 in performance when joining other clubs proves that.

Again, this is why I think a NZ, NSW based team would succeed with the right staff but most importantly an ethos of striving to be our best and winning premierships consistently. You have to aim for the stars to reach the moon so to speak.

I know its not a popular opinion. But Im adament the seperation caused by being based in NZ, especially at a ground not many Aucklanders have easy access too and is a track and field stadium, is the main reason. We just hide away, game after game, to have any chance we needed somebody more like Toovey who would light fires under big forwards to get them motivated.

Look how hard it is for the Qld teams, if they create a 4th its only going to be harder. We needed a NZ, Australian based team. We have more supporters there than we do in NZ.

I hate the idea of basing in Australia. It feels like a cheap rip off.

Like buying an expensive shirt and finding out it’s made in China!

If you’re a New Zealand team, then you are based in New Zealand! End of story.
 

AusWarriorsFan

1st Grade Fringe
Sep 4, 2016
2,714
I hate the idea of basing in Australia. It feels like a cheap rip off.

If you’re a New Zealand team, then you are based in New Zealand.
I understand that. But its a NSW/Aus based competition. Being Aus based doesnt make a team any less NZ. Its simply more attractive for NZ players, players we would dream of attracting in NZ. likely an ethos more in line with Australian based clubs etc.

I know the idea eats at some. But I think if it was branded clearly as a NZ team and had games based in NZ, it would ease that feeling. But it is the number 1 reason marquee players of non NZ/Polynesian (and a lot of them too) do not want to join the Warriors, they do not want to move to NZ. Secondly its known as a club that sees itself outside of the NRL, or more so disjointed. And thats true, the Warriors do not live to the same standards or have the same feeder of Aus nursery (although Redcliffe could help with that).

I know the idea sounds horrible. But I can see it working. Heck the amount of kiwis who support the Storm just because they have a lot of kiwis in the team and win comps is amazing. I dont see why a secondary NZ team based in Aus playing some games in NZ would be less attractive than that, if it had a winning ethos and culture.

Its modern pro sport. Its like saying I wont support Canterbury Crudesaders over the last 30 years because they are mostly Auckland players. Its not where the team or players are from in modern sport, its all about who they are called and how successful they are.

Joe Tapani, watching him score for Raiders, a Wellington boy. Imagine if he had a path in Aus for NZ players. That is SOOOO much more attractive for NZ players than the Warriors based in the closet of Auckland (Mt Smart)

The great thing BM, we dont have to agree but at least we can appreciate and voice our opinions. Even if we had a NZ, Aus based club, I dont think Id swap. Much like I didnt when the Storm started suceeding with all those kiwi players, and are still very much a NZ club be default.
 
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Stalefish540

.
Contributor
May 13, 2017
2,723
Mt. Smart
Its simple.

We’re shit at developing players. That’s a fact.

The question is why????
The reason is because these kids come up in the NZ league system, which is completely inferior to the Aussie system. All of the reasons for why that is are well known, so no need to rehash them. The other reason is they come from rugby systems, and have to be taught how to play RL.

Both of these reasons lead to players joining the club underdeveloped, and from that point it's a constant game of catch up.
 

Cces

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 12, 2013
172
Christchurch
Our development is undoubtedly poor but since POS has come on board he's been solid without being spectacular.

Players released in recent times:
Hayze Perham, Karl Lawton, Adam Keighran, Gerard Beale, Leviaha Pulu, Lachlan Burr, Patrick Herbert, Taane Milne, Nathaniel Roache, Agnatius Paasi, Blake Green, Sam Lisone, Chris Satae, Ligi Sao, Solomone Kata, Shaun Johnson, James Gavet, CNK, Mason Lino, Anthony Gelling

Declined our contract offers:
Paul Turner, Isaiah Papali'i

Current players we've debuted:
Edward Kosi, Rocco Berry, Reece Walsh, Tom Ale, Paul Turner, Eliesa Katoa, JTB, Josh Curran, Adam Pompey
 

Mr Dragon

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 25, 2015
953
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AusWarriorsFan

1st Grade Fringe
Sep 4, 2016
2,714
The reason is because these kids come up in the NZ league system, which is completely inferior to the Aussie system. All of the reasons for why that is are well known, so no need to rehash them. The other reason is they come from rugby systems, and have to be taught how to play RL.

Both of these reasons lead to players joining the club underdeveloped, and from that point it's a constant game of catch up.
I agree and is one of the reasons I believe we need to be Australian based with an Australian feeder team (which we have) and have club expectations and deliverables in line with Australian expectations.

We have so many NZ kids who transfer to Aus based RL early on when they are flagged as potentials for those reasons. If they had a NZ team based in Aus, who had the depth and professionalism of youngns that the Aus clubs do, we would be so better off.

Fan base wise, we have more fans in Aus (kiwis and Aussies) than in Union based NZ.

It just makes sense to me, how to turn the culture around is to be part of the culture not a branch off of it in a far off land with no RL media or pressure and a stadium that is very hard for promoting the game of RL to most of Auckland even if we were successful. But I still think playing some games in NZ is important to promote the game.

Or keep the Warriors in NZ, but get a decent flappn Stadium and have a CCH team in Gosford. Cant be Wellington, because if there was a RL team named the Welli Hurricanes, it would stir up a Storm bahaha, sorry my Dad jokes make me giggle.
 

AusWarriorsFan

1st Grade Fringe
Sep 4, 2016
2,714
Our development is undoubtedly poor but since POS has come on board he's been solid without being spectacular.

Players released in recent times:
Hayze Perham, Karl Lawton, Adam Keighran, Gerard Beale, Leviaha Pulu, Lachlan Burr, Patrick Herbert, Taane Milne, Nathaniel Roache, Agnatius Paasi, Blake Green, Sam Lisone, Chris Satae, Ligi Sao, Solomone Kata, Shaun Johnson, James Gavet, CNK, Mason Lino, Anthony Gelling

Declined our contract offers:
Paul Turner, Isaiah Papali'i

Current players we've debuted:
Edward Kosi, Rocco Berry, Reece Walsh, Tom Ale, Paul Turner, Eliesa Katoa, JTB, Josh Curran, Adam Pompey
Of those, Id have Kept Hayze (and released Kodi), Karl lawton was far better at dummy half runs than Egan is and he showed intent every game but needed aerobic fitness and less weight Pat Herbert I thought showed exactly what we want in a centre similar to Pompey, SJ for obvious reasons but managed his expectations with a little more Princess sensitivity, CNK was just pure stupidity and what we could do with him at FB on low money leaving Walsh at 6.,If have offered Turner and Papalii better deals. Id put Turner on the wing and release one of the big boys, Im not sure which way Id go on that one.

Fixes all of the problems we have or need backup in.

I sure hope POS is looking at Regan Grace at St Helens who is only 24 and is a fast flying winger with some real no BS pal in your face sort. Not sure what hes looking for but sure he would jump at an NRL contract.
 

AusWarriorsFan

1st Grade Fringe
Sep 4, 2016
2,714
Good to see some mongrel from Tohu, great try and effort over the line.

As Brandy said pre match "interesting to see how they use Walsh, put him in the halves and move Kodi into dummy half, now thats something special Id like to see" or words that effect. Yes Brandy, you and me both and most people who actually want the Warriors to win more than to sympathize Kodi's purpose.

Just flappn do it it Brownie.
 

Wellington Warrior

Warriors 1st Grader
May 15, 2012
5,742
Wellington, New Zealand
Its simple.

We’re shit at developing players. That’s a fact.
Something very telling about the club was the interview with POS and the story about how he recruited RTS to the Roosters.
Said he was speaking with the Warriors scout at the NZRL carnival who said to him that they had the best player at the carnival already signed up.. don’t know who it was but he was a centre.
POS said he watched 5 minutes of RTS playing and said that the guy the warriors signed wasn’t even the best player on their team... got the deal with RTS done pretty quickly after that!
Hopefully with POS in charge we have stopped chasing the wrong younger players!
 
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