Recruitment 2019 Warriors Recruitment DISCUSSION

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bruce

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Paul Kent said as much on NRL 360 last week. Not a direct quote but he said the Warriors struggled to recruit good local talent because NZ does not have the league background that Aussie has. Therefore kids are not immersed from a very young age so do not develop to the same standard as Aussie kids. He seemed saddened by the situation & a bit pissed off at NZRL not being more involved.

He's hit the nail on the head right there
He don't know shite.

In the early 90s, as I have posted so many times, players were going straight from Fox to NSWRL FG and turning out stars, not just ordinary players.

I had been away from Auckland for a while but came back around that time and was speaking about our development to a local club (which was being coached by a future Kiwi coach, and had another as reserve grade coach YES TRUE!!). This guy showed me the training programs for their senior and reserve sides for the Fox. They certainly were impressive and that club later supplied a few star players (e.g. GF players) to Sydney

That is why the NSWRL were so shit scared of Auckland coming into the competition. They saw a Brisbane on steroids.

The standard of the Fox has plummeted since then. The poor management of the Warriors since inception hasn't helped at all e.g. Eric Watson the useless bastard. However Australia has other attractions e.g. better paid jobs, cheaper standard of living.

As for blaming the NZRL, Mr. Kent, why not ask the ARL what they have done to regularly kick the NZRL in the balls. I like listening to Kent but he is a typical navel gazing Sydney critic, as can be expected because that his his readership.
Rant over.
 
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Tragic

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The game has changed since the early 90's. Professionals are bigger stronger and drilled to play structured robotic footy and play the percentages. Jumping from our local footy to the NRL is harder now. Our big opportunity for a premiership was in the 90's when we could bring locals through Fox and stick them in and they could compete, theose days are gone.
 
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bruce

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The game has changed since the early 90's. Professionals are bigger stronger and drilled to play structured robotic footy and play the percentages. Jumping from our local footy to the NRL is harder now. Our big opportunity for a premiership was in the 90's when we could bring locals through Fox and stick them in and they could compete, theose days are gone.
Excuse me, how does that make sense? Local Fox isn't anything like it used to be. Nothing at all, why?

The Australians have always been robotic, Graham Lowe commented on that when he was coaching the Kiwis before he went to Wigan even. There are other reasons but I don't want to get started on it. Kent wouldn't know shite.
 
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Uncmase

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Its sad just how broke NZRL are.
I read a lot of comments on social media how other fans of league that aren't Kiwi, Or are but don't support the kiwis. Call NZRL out for not doing more financially to help the island nations. And use that against us in support of players changing allegiances. Like we don't or haven't done fuck all for them so fuck NZ!? Lol.

They think the NZRL has All Black $ We're as broke as you guys. Chill!!
 
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mt.wellington

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Excuse me, how does that make sense? Local Fox isn't anything like it used to be. Nothing at all, why?

The Australians have always been robotic, Graham Lowe commented on that when he was coaching the Kiwis before he went to Wigan even. There are other reasons but I don't want to get started on it. Kent wouldn't know shite.
Kents talking about the now. Not travelling back in time like you always like to do. Times have changed. This isn't the 90s. Fox Memorial Premiership team now lose to the Warriors U20s team. Every year. When was the last time someone was selected from the NZ domestic scene to play for the Kiwis? Yep, back in the early 90s...
 
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I know a lot of parents who have sent their kids over to play league in Australia. Two biggest reasons are they start them younger and the level of competition is much higher.
How many of the parents follow the kids? There would be a lot of families where the recruiter comes along and maps out the opportunities for their son. Some instances it might be better for their son to have their family there or it might end up the thing that makes them decide to move as well for their own job opportunities.

It would be interesting to know the official stats on the number of young players lost each year to Australia. Some of the numbers I have heard quoted on Radio Sport (heard 200-500) is quite staggering.
 
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When was the last time someone was selected from the NZ domestic scene to play for the Kiwis? Yep, back in the early 90s...
Peter Brown back in the late 80’s?
 
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Mike Doreen played for the Kiwis in the early 90's.
Did Tony Tuimavave play for the kiwis,maybe after he played for Warriors anyway
 
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Kents talking about the now. Not travelling back in time like you always like to do. Times have changed. This isn't the 90s. Fox Memorial Premiership team now lose to the Warriors U20s team. Every year. When was the last time someone was selected from the NZ domestic scene to play for the Kiwis? Yep, back in the early 90s...
My question was why? Kent didn't have the answer, just a dumb observation. I reckon I know some answers, what about you?
 
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Logan Swann played for NZ from reserve grade. Not quite the domestic comp but still, it's something you wouldn't expect to see anymore.
That was when we hardly had any Sydney professionals outside the Warriors. Those that were were stars though. The others in the late 90s were from England. You don't see that now either.

One of the real rock stars from the 80s was Olsen Filipaina. Never on side with his coaches so usually in reserves then used to get selected by Lowe for the Kiwis and run rings around Wally Lewis.
 
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bruce

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Mike Doreen played for the Kiwis in the early 90's.
Did Tony Tuimavave play for the kiwis,maybe after he played for Warriors anyway
Played 1 test while at the Warriors. Those were the days when just about any Kiwi in the Warriors made the Kiwi side.
 
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It would be interesting to know the official stats on the number of young players lost each year to Australia. Some of the numbers I have heard quoted on Radio Sport (heard 200-500) is quite staggering.
I think those numbers are true. It was in the 100s over 20 years ago. I am not sure but I wonder if the clubs organise jobs for the parents, they sure used to for the WAGS.

Another thing I noticed was the quality of young football players in the Junior All Whites recently. Really athletic and talented, mostly from academies in NZ.

If you are a middle class NZ family with an athletic kid there are so many options now for professional sport e.g. basketball, football even athletics. Compare that with playing in the first fifteen against kids who are years ahead of them in physical development, let alone size.

Then add to that the employment situation. Jobs are easy to get here but the money is shite compared with Australia. Any kid with a job here is going to think twice about getting smashed up on the weekend and losing time off work.

Add all that to those actually going to Australia and the talent pool is really draining, and the Fox is probably the best example, Mr Kent.

Things have really changed, and it is not all the fault of the NZRL.
 
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mt.wellington

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My question was why? Kent didn't have the answer, just a dumb observation. I reckon I know some answers, what about you?
There is only one right answer why the Fox is rubbish. All the best players are now playing the Australian comp and have done since Tony Kemp...
 
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NRL 360 is a TV programme with the sole purpose of promoting Fox's interests in NRL. I'm not sure what to call what Paul Kent says. I am sure it's not journalism or particularly rational. It's a shame as league deserves a quality show rather than the rubbish on Sky.
I'm really looking forward to the games this weekend. Maybe a new star the Warriors can recruit will emerge.
 
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Apologies if this off topic but just saw this on Stuff and wanted to share. With all recent talk on here about current state of grassroots rugby league, you can't ignore fact that there are many direct parallels between rugby and rugby league in this country and that something dire needs to be done in order to save it :

The death of club rugby in Auckland is coming fast

This story was originally published by Metro and is republished with kind permission.

OPINION: Our national game is seeing a dwindling numbers of players, an artificial concentration of talent in wealthy schools and seems unwilling to change with the times. The end of club rugby comes with a whimper, not a bang, writes Jamie Wall.

Eden Park on the last evening of May was a desolate place. A cold snap hit Auckland, turning the stadium where you could comfortably wear shorts to every game into a far more traditional winter destination. The long, grey concourse was pooling with water, seeping down through the exposed part out the back of the west stand, and the gates themselves.

The problem was there seemed to be more precipitation coming in than people. There were good reasons for that: obviously the freezing weather, the fact that it was the Friday of a long weekend, but most of all because the Auckland rugby public has simply given up on their team.

Now, if you're thinking this is yet another Blues post-mortem before the season has even finished (like last year, the year before that, the year before - etc.), it's not. Well, not entirely. Because sitting there, throughout what turned out to be an awful game of rugby between the Blues and Bulls that fittingly neither side won, staring at the multitude of empty seats and wishing that we could just leave, a sad realisation came about - what we were seeing isn't just the death of another Blues season. Even Auckland's one triumph of recent years, winning the Mitre 10 Cup last season, said more about the state of the game in the city than anything else. The union flung open the doors of Eden Park and made it free entry, knowing full well that charging people to get in would result in an embarrassingly empty stadium for the provincial game's supposed showpiece.

Unless someone does something soon, this may well be the death of the sport in Auckland.

Right now, player numbers are dropping far quicker than anyone would care to admit. Club rugby at senior level has been a farcical mess, and below that grades are drying up. College rugby is on a fast track to becoming like the exploitative American NCAA model, where only the top players are being looked after before being spat out into a professional environment that can't accommodate all of them.

And rugby's governing body either can't, or won't, do anything about it. Plenty of people reading this are probably thinking 'who cares', but whether you like it or not, this is a sport that's been the heartbeat of communities for its entire existence.

A couple of weeks earlier, I had hauled my weary body into the College Rifles RFC clubrooms. It's a well-run, wealthy club in the heart of Remuera. It owns its own grounds, which have been converted from a muddy paddock to state of the art synthetic grass fields. There's a gym, two covered training areas and the rooms upstairs are festooned with its rich history. None of that helped my team, though - we'd just been thrashed.

The club was busy, there had been a few home games on, so there were plenty of polo shirt-clad men of varying ages parked up on barstools and draining jugs of beer. Rifles is a nicely presented club, with plush carpet and a slick new interior makeover, but this scene was essentially the same as every other club in the country at that particular time. Late Saturday afternoon, the time when beer tastes its best. Up on the wall there is a TV that updates the Premier grade scores. It'd been a good day for our Prem side. A record one in fact - they'd beaten East Tamaki 126-3.

But Rifles weren't alone in the one-sided results department. Ponsonby had thrashed Waitakere 61-7. Eden pasted Te Papapa 79-14. Marist strolled to an 80-0 win over Mt Wellington. The only score that was remotely close was Suburbs' 26-12 victory over Grammar TEC. While you can put that down to a quirk of the draw that pitted all the haves with the have-nots in one afternoon, it showed in stark detail the absolute disparity that exists in club rugby right now.

Go lower down the grades, and it made for even bleaker reading. My team plays in the First Grade, which is actually the third senior men's grade after Premiers and Premier Development but somehow renamed that way - presumably to make us feel better. The irony is there is no open senior men's competition after First Grade. Three open men's grades in the largest catchment area in the country.

There are less and less players coming through to replenish the playing stocks at the grassroots level, despite the fact that the profile of secondary school rugby has never been higher. If anything, though, the glorification of what essentially amounts to being advertisements for mostly private schools has somewhat set the development of anyone who hasn't been earmarked for higher honours by the time they're 15 a long way back.

Tellingly, the vast majority of those schools are in Auckland. The arms-race that exists in first XV rugby finally had its first official off-field flare-up earlier this year, when the 1A competition members refused to play powerhouse St Kentigern College on the basis that they'd been unfairly outstripping playing resources. The model that is being run by these schools is now having an obviously negative effect on numbers: boys' and girls' secondary school rugby teams within Auckland Rugby fell from 225 in 2013, to 188 in 2017, and 181 in 2018. North Harbour had 92 secondary boys' and girls' rugby teams in 2014 and 64 in 2018.

Fast forward a week after the Blues' disastrous draw with the Bulls, and they've now added a loss to the lowly Queensland Reds to their 2019 season tally the night before. It's Saturday afternoon in the Union St traffic heading towards another hiding with the Rifles First Grade side, and I'm listening to Radio Sport. NZ Rugby chairman Brent Impey is on the air with host Jim Kayes, and what he's saying pretty much sums up just why the game is in the state that it is. Impey looks, sounds and most probably thinks exactly the same way that every other man in his title has across the entirety of the organisation.

Firstly, he breathlessly admits that the Crusaders won't be changing their name, and apparently were never going to in the wake of the March 15 terror attacks. In a long, rambling and obviously unprepared statement, Impey says it came down to money and contracts, and that changing the jersey design would be too costly. He then completely contradicts this by saying that the logo will in fact change next season, which means the jerseys and merchandise will all need to be changed with it.

Kayes presses him further about the decision, but Impey veers off into a direction in which he talks about digital revenue and broadcasting, then inadvertently downplays the quality of content on the official All Blacks website - of which Kayes is a contributor. But this diversion probably reveals more about the current state of affairs than Impey probably intends it to, as the preoccupation with money soon has him answering a question about the health of the game at the grassroots level.

"You've got tradition versus changing society on one hand, the other conflict you've got is that professional players need money. Only 0.4% of players are professionals, against the other 99.6 which is the community game."

That's the bit where I'm expecting him to actually admit there's a problem. But instead, it's just another trail-off.

"So, ummm, yes, ummm...everybody wants more."

It's frustratingly obtuse, especially when Impey then overtly admits that Auckland is the biggest problem area, and something they should be doing is encouraging new ethnicities to play the game. That's probably a good place to start in Auckland, but there is no actual mention of whether NZR will actually do anything about it though.

A few hours later, while we're out on the field tackling our Massey opponents (they are a club from neighbouring Harbour, whose senior men's playing stocks are now so low they have sent their one first grade side into the Auckland competition), it turns out that Impey had announced the Crusaders name change without telling the Crusaders themselves. It sends the franchise and its CEO Colin Mainsbridge into damage control, hastily rearranging some of what Impey said (change was never an option etc.) into something a little more palatable. The farcical situation sums up the duty of care that seems to be being taken around all matters below the All Blacks these days, that the most controversial and problematic issue they have is trying to be swept under the rug at franchise level, then treated by not a big enough deal by the chairman of NZR to even keep his mouth shut about it.

If that's the way they're dealing with that massively divisive issue, what bloody hope do the rest of us have? While the narrative around the Crusaders and their problematic name will pop up in opinion pieces from now on, in the background player numbers will again decline next season, then the season after that.

While the city's flagship team is on its knees, the support system in place to prop it up is on its back. If someone high up doesn't do something, soon, rugby's decline in Auckland will enter an irreversible stage.

But the saddest thing is, like all those empty seats at Eden Park showed, no one may even care.

Metro

Source : https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/113610698/the-death-of-club-rugby-in-auckland-is-coming-fast

:bag:
 
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bruce

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Apologies if this off topic but just saw this on Stuff and wanted to share. With all recent talk on here about current state of grassroots rugby league, you can't ignore fact that there are many direct parallels between rugby and rugby league in this country and that something dire needs to be done in order to save it :

The death of club rugby in Auckland is coming fast

This story was originally published by Metro and is republished with kind permission.

OPINION: Our national game is seeing a dwindling numbers of players, an artificial concentration of talent in wealthy schools and seems unwilling to change with the times. The end of club rugby comes with a whimper, not a bang, writes Jamie Wall.

Eden Park on the last evening of May was a desolate place. A cold snap hit Auckland, turning the stadium where you could comfortably wear shorts to every game into a far more traditional winter destination. The long, grey concourse was pooling with water, seeping down through the exposed part out the back of the west stand, and the gates themselves.

The problem was there seemed to be more precipitation coming in than people. There were good reasons for that: obviously the freezing weather, the fact that it was the Friday of a long weekend, but most of all because the Auckland rugby public has simply given up on their team.

Now, if you're thinking this is yet another Blues post-mortem before the season has even finished (like last year, the year before that, the year before - etc.), it's not. Well, not entirely. Because sitting there, throughout what turned out to be an awful game of rugby between the Blues and Bulls that fittingly neither side won, staring at the multitude of empty seats and wishing that we could just leave, a sad realisation came about - what we were seeing isn't just the death of another Blues season. Even Auckland's one triumph of recent years, winning the Mitre 10 Cup last season, said more about the state of the game in the city than anything else. The union flung open the doors of Eden Park and made it free entry, knowing full well that charging people to get in would result in an embarrassingly empty stadium for the provincial game's supposed showpiece.

Unless someone does something soon, this may well be the death of the sport in Auckland.

Right now, player numbers are dropping far quicker than anyone would care to admit. Club rugby at senior level has been a farcical mess, and below that grades are drying up. College rugby is on a fast track to becoming like the exploitative American NCAA model, where only the top players are being looked after before being spat out into a professional environment that can't accommodate all of them.

And rugby's governing body either can't, or won't, do anything about it. Plenty of people reading this are probably thinking 'who cares', but whether you like it or not, this is a sport that's been the heartbeat of communities for its entire existence.

A couple of weeks earlier, I had hauled my weary body into the College Rifles RFC clubrooms. It's a well-run, wealthy club in the heart of Remuera. It owns its own grounds, which have been converted from a muddy paddock to state of the art synthetic grass fields. There's a gym, two covered training areas and the rooms upstairs are festooned with its rich history. None of that helped my team, though - we'd just been thrashed.

The club was busy, there had been a few home games on, so there were plenty of polo shirt-clad men of varying ages parked up on barstools and draining jugs of beer. Rifles is a nicely presented club, with plush carpet and a slick new interior makeover, but this scene was essentially the same as every other club in the country at that particular time. Late Saturday afternoon, the time when beer tastes its best. Up on the wall there is a TV that updates the Premier grade scores. It'd been a good day for our Prem side. A record one in fact - they'd beaten East Tamaki 126-3.

But Rifles weren't alone in the one-sided results department. Ponsonby had thrashed Waitakere 61-7. Eden pasted Te Papapa 79-14. Marist strolled to an 80-0 win over Mt Wellington. The only score that was remotely close was Suburbs' 26-12 victory over Grammar TEC. While you can put that down to a quirk of the draw that pitted all the haves with the have-nots in one afternoon, it showed in stark detail the absolute disparity that exists in club rugby right now.

Go lower down the grades, and it made for even bleaker reading. My team plays in the First Grade, which is actually the third senior men's grade after Premiers and Premier Development but somehow renamed that way - presumably to make us feel better. The irony is there is no open senior men's competition after First Grade. Three open men's grades in the largest catchment area in the country.

There are less and less players coming through to replenish the playing stocks at the grassroots level, despite the fact that the profile of secondary school rugby has never been higher. If anything, though, the glorification of what essentially amounts to being advertisements for mostly private schools has somewhat set the development of anyone who hasn't been earmarked for higher honours by the time they're 15 a long way back.

Tellingly, the vast majority of those schools are in Auckland. The arms-race that exists in first XV rugby finally had its first official off-field flare-up earlier this year, when the 1A competition members refused to play powerhouse St Kentigern College on the basis that they'd been unfairly outstripping playing resources. The model that is being run by these schools is now having an obviously negative effect on numbers: boys' and girls' secondary school rugby teams within Auckland Rugby fell from 225 in 2013, to 188 in 2017, and 181 in 2018. North Harbour had 92 secondary boys' and girls' rugby teams in 2014 and 64 in 2018.

Fast forward a week after the Blues' disastrous draw with the Bulls, and they've now added a loss to the lowly Queensland Reds to their 2019 season tally the night before. It's Saturday afternoon in the Union St traffic heading towards another hiding with the Rifles First Grade side, and I'm listening to Radio Sport. NZ Rugby chairman Brent Impey is on the air with host Jim Kayes, and what he's saying pretty much sums up just why the game is in the state that it is. Impey looks, sounds and most probably thinks exactly the same way that every other man in his title has across the entirety of the organisation.

Firstly, he breathlessly admits that the Crusaders won't be changing their name, and apparently were never going to in the wake of the March 15 terror attacks. In a long, rambling and obviously unprepared statement, Impey says it came down to money and contracts, and that changing the jersey design would be too costly. He then completely contradicts this by saying that the logo will in fact change next season, which means the jerseys and merchandise will all need to be changed with it.

Kayes presses him further about the decision, but Impey veers off into a direction in which he talks about digital revenue and broadcasting, then inadvertently downplays the quality of content on the official All Blacks website - of which Kayes is a contributor. But this diversion probably reveals more about the current state of affairs than Impey probably intends it to, as the preoccupation with money soon has him answering a question about the health of the game at the grassroots level.

"You've got tradition versus changing society on one hand, the other conflict you've got is that professional players need money. Only 0.4% of players are professionals, against the other 99.6 which is the community game."

That's the bit where I'm expecting him to actually admit there's a problem. But instead, it's just another trail-off.

"So, ummm, yes, ummm...everybody wants more."

It's frustratingly obtuse, especially when Impey then overtly admits that Auckland is the biggest problem area, and something they should be doing is encouraging new ethnicities to play the game. That's probably a good place to start in Auckland, but there is no actual mention of whether NZR will actually do anything about it though.

A few hours later, while we're out on the field tackling our Massey opponents (they are a club from neighbouring Harbour, whose senior men's playing stocks are now so low they have sent their one first grade side into the Auckland competition), it turns out that Impey had announced the Crusaders name change without telling the Crusaders themselves. It sends the franchise and its CEO Colin Mainsbridge into damage control, hastily rearranging some of what Impey said (change was never an option etc.) into something a little more palatable. The farcical situation sums up the duty of care that seems to be being taken around all matters below the All Blacks these days, that the most controversial and problematic issue they have is trying to be swept under the rug at franchise level, then treated by not a big enough deal by the chairman of NZR to even keep his mouth shut about it.

If that's the way they're dealing with that massively divisive issue, what bloody hope do the rest of us have? While the narrative around the Crusaders and their problematic name will pop up in opinion pieces from now on, in the background player numbers will again decline next season, then the season after that.

While the city's flagship team is on its knees, the support system in place to prop it up is on its back. If someone high up doesn't do something, soon, rugby's decline in Auckland will enter an irreversible stage.

But the saddest thing is, like all those empty seats at Eden Park showed, no one may even care.

Metro

Source : https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/113610698/the-death-of-club-rugby-in-auckland-is-coming-fast

:bag:
Great post. Good article. The situation in the rural areas is even worse.
 
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