Internationals 2016 Australia v Kiwis Test, Perth

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Brother Faisal

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8. Matthew Scott Prop 1 14 (134m)
9. Cameron Smith Hooker 3 (16m)
10. Shannon Boyd Prop 2 12 (118m)
11. Boyd Cordner 2nd Row 1 16 (141m)
12. Matt Gillett 2nd Row 2 10 (101m)
13. Trent Merrin Lock 10 (101m)
14. David Klemmer Interchange 10 (96m)
15. Michael Morgan Interchange 5 (34m)
16. Tyson Frizell Interchange 8 (76m)
17. Sam Thaiday Interchange 11 (105m)

8. Jesse Bromwich Prop 1 9 (77m)
9. Issac Luke Hooker 7 (62m)
10. Jared Waerea-Hargreaves Prop (27m)
11. Kevin Proctor 2nd Row (46m)
12. Tohu Harris 2nd Row (65m)
13. Jason Taumalolo Lock (67m)
14. Lewis Brown Interchange (27m)
15. Martin Taupau Interchange (129m)
16. Manu Ma'u Interchange (99m)
17. Adam Blair Interchange (68m)

we have the best pack on paper but not on field. thats pretty telling stats.

i think alot of it is to do with the hooker service, isaac is slow, leuleai has to go into dummy half.

can we still call up manu?

maybe too much of the same with proctor and harris.
thats just a huge statement that needs to be in the locker room and to ask questions of people. JWH might as well go home 27metres. Taupau delivers again. Taumalolo is gettinu under utilised. Alot of work for kidwell to do.
 
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Alexthewormking

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Pathetic from JWH in his redemption match... I only managed to keep one eye on the game while at work but every time I looked up it seemed like SKD was dropping the ball.
 
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TheCool

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SKD had one of the worst games I've ever seen from a player at that level. Allowing Boyd to walk in for the first try (didn't even really make an effort) and then 3 crucial knock ons.

Obviously Johnson's had some bad games before, but this is the first game I've seen him play where he genuinely looked lost and had no idea what to do when he had the ball. More often then not he was found passing the ball to someone in a worse position than himself, not knowing where the direction of the play was going and just generally not on the same page as Bully and Leuluai. Big concern for mine.

Thought Leuluai was MoM from the kiwis, he was huge on defence (as always) and made good decisions with the ball (except for that kick after that taupau line break). Taupau was the best forward. And obviously Kata had an amazing debut (was there any doubt? the guys a superstar in the making) I think he'll hold onto one of those centre spots even when Whare and Hiku return.

Kahu honestly has to be one of the most overrated player in the game imo. While he did well not to make any mistakes when defusing thurston's kicking game, he doesn't really offer much other than safety. I want Fusitua in at fullback (or the very least on the wing), its clear that we need more strike power in that back line.
 
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gREVUS

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Johnson has been totally absent.

I admire Kahu's solidity and dependability but he adds nothing to this team from fullback. Kenny-dowall has to go after this performance as does Nightingale who was monstered all game and Warea-Hargreaves who in my opinion is a bit of a myth.

I would make the following changes:

1. Kahu > Fusitu'a
2. Nightingale > Watene-Zelezniak
3. Kata
4. Kenny-Dowall > Kahu
5. Rapana
6. Leuluai
7. Johnson
8. Bromwich
9. Luke
10. Warea-Hargreaves > Blair
11. Proctor
12. Harris > Mannering
13. Taumalolo
14. Brown
15. Taupau
16. Blair > Eastwood
17. Ma'u > Harris
Had to watch on replay so didnt get to add to the skd and nitengale hate, but their time is long past. Like what youve got here with one exception, TL killed the attack way to often imo, great defender but nothing on attack. And with SJ OFFERING NOTHING AND NO CHANCE OF BEING DROPPED , someone has to change and i think its him. Just have no fucking clue who to replace him with.
 
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I guess we shouldnt be surprised with the result. The players in the most pivotal positions #6,7. & 9 come from the Warriors. No conhension or ball smarts. Its sad but its true.

However, I'm still shaking my head with the game plan or lack of.

How is it we have the daly m player of the year im Taumalolo and we fail to have a game plan that revolves around him, and our forwards???????

I would have thought filling our backline with speed to burn and have them hang around the forwards sniffing for offloads or quick play the balls would have worked.

Instead, we player away from our advantage anf tried to exploit them out wide with bombs and quick passes that ended up forward. We played a backline with old slow has-beens in skd and jason nightingale when we really need SPEED in the blackline.

I also think we need to up our size in the pack. Bring in Mutts and Kasiano. Get them angry and fired up. Our kiwi pack can roll them if we keep applying pressure.

A constant rotation of our pack busting them up the middle with quick dummy half runs and offloads.

When their forwards are on the back foot that is when little twinkle toes Shuan Johnson goes to work by charging up the middle and stepping into half gaps.

The sadly reality is we all know SJ will never put his body on the line and step into the forward pack looking for holes. Tooo much of a pea heart. Someone needs to show him footage of little alfie langer. That guy was only half the size of SJ but constantly found gaps up the middle. Especially those grubbers he use to do for himself.

Our SJ is nothing but a one trick pony.

Our new coach mr kidwell i dont think has much smarts. His only claim to fame is accidentally knocking out Willie Mason in a tackle when playing for the kiwis.
 
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mt.wellington

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That Kiwis pack needs to go take a look in the mirror. Full credit to Mel Meninga though. He did in one game what Tim Sheens couldnt and that was to not only copy the Kiwis big forward pack template but beat it for height, weight and athleticism. The Kiwis forwards may individually be better on paper but the Aussies collectively beat them hands down. As the old cliche goes 'better a star team then a team of stars'.

Anybody giving Shaun Johnson shit really needs to go back to league school and better educate yourselves.

ENGINE ROOM.

Thats where it all starts. Very rarely did either of our halves get front foot ball. Not sure what most of you guys dont understand about that but at that level you will never get anywhere without it. Sup42 Sup42 stance on Manu Vatuvei is all about that front foot momentum. The value of getting those sets off to good starts or having forwards capable of bending the line and getting quick plays of the ball are what separates the men from the boys.

Seriously look at the stats from Bro Faisal of the forwards and tell me otherwise.

8. Matthew Scott Prop 1 14 (134m)
9. Cameron Smith Hooker 3 (16m)
10. Shannon Boyd Prop 2 12 (118m)
11. Boyd Cordner 2nd Row 1 16 (141m)
12. Matt Gillett 2nd Row 2 10 (101m)
13. Trent Merrin Lock 10 (101m)
14. David Klemmer Interchange 10 (96m)
15. Michael Morgan Interchange 5 (34m)
16. Tyson Frizell Interchange 8 (76m)
17. Sam Thaiday Interchange 11 (105m)

8. Jesse Bromwich Prop 1 9 (77m)
9. Issac Luke Hooker 7 (62m)
10. Jared Waerea-Hargreaves Prop (27m)
11. Kevin Proctor 2nd Row (46m)
12. Tohu Harris 2nd Row (65m)
13. Jason Taumalolo Lock (67m)
14. Lewis Brown Interchange (27m)
15. Martin Taupau Interchange (129m)
16. Manu Ma'u Interchange (99m)
17. Adam Blair Interchange (68m)
To break that down even further:

Australia 922
New Zealand 667

The Aussie pack made a whopping 245 metres more than the 'best pack in the world'. With the exception of Martin Taupau not one of our forwards made over 100 metres. Taupau made 40 metres off his line break which pushed him over. That really is a pathetic effort considering the fact that we had the Dally M prop and lock playing for us.

Also the new coach needs to go back to what was working for the Kiwis. Expansive footy thats played on the edges to create space for the halves and backs. As Sup said this middle ground play is not the go when youre the smaller team. Also this one off the ruck shotgun shit isnt fooling anyone when youre not winning the ruck in the first place.

Now the halves and the backs arent free from blame but the lynch mob mentality on Johnson is unwarranted and shows a lack of basic understanding of the game. The backs need to get the ball wider faster and Johnson can definitely organise the 5th tackle options better but you get that front foot ball and the time and space needed to create those options appear like magic then Shaun gets on the highlight reels and fans start riding his dick when it was really the forwards that did all the work. That being said Johnson is no General but he's never been one so Im not sure what people are expecting?

The other thing. The Kiwis dont play like the Warriors. Its the other way around. The Warriors play like that cause they have too many Kiwis who have been developed in New Zealand. Once you get your head around that it'll all make sense .

Back to the drawing board for Kidwell. The Aussies size is a bonus for the middle but get those boys back peddling and it soon unravels. Hopefully Kidwell better utilises the packs agility next game. He needs to work the edges a lot more. Go away from the centre and move the ball across more of the field. Commit more Aussie forward players to the line. I know Kidwell wants to stamp his own mark on the team but theres no excuse for removing all the width and decoy runners that kept the opposition guessing and honest.

SKD needs to go. More of a liability to the team then any other player I can remember ever playing for the Kiwis. Dont think I can remember a worse performance from an individual player. Pity our centre stocks are so low.

Hope Kidwell and the boys sort it out for the Four Nations or we wont even make the final...
 
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brightman

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Also the new coach needs to go back to what was working for the Kiwis.
The flipside to your statement is the Warriors will play a successful style of footy under Kearney that will ultimately lead to improvement in the Kiwis playing stock. In effect, once the Warriors are strong then the Kiwis will be strong.
 
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Sledge

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That Kiwis pack needs to go take a look in the mirror. Full credit to Mel Meninga though. He did in one game what Tim Sheens couldnt and that was to not only copy the Kiwis big forward pack template but beat it for height, weight and athleticism. The Kiwis forwards may individually be better on paper but the Aussies collectively beat them hands down. As the old cliche goes 'better a star team then a team of stars'.

Anybody giving Shaun Johnson shit really needs to go back to league school and better educate yourselves.

ENGINE ROOM.

Thats where it all starts. Very rarely did either of our halves get front foot ball. Not sure what most of you guys dont understand about that but at that level you will never get anywhere without it. Sup42 Sup42 stance on Manu Vatuvei is all about that front foot momentum. The value of getting those sets off to good starts or having forwards capable of bending the line and getting quick plays of the ball are what separates the men from the boys.

Seriously look at the stats from Bro Faisal of the forwards and tell me otherwise.


To break that down even further:

Australia 922
New Zealand 667

The Aussie pack made a whopping 245 metres more than the 'best pack in the world'. With the exception of Martin Taupau not one of our forwards made over 100 metres. Taupau made 40 metres off his line break which pushed him over. That really is a pathetic effort considering the fact that we had the Dally M prop and lock playing for us.

Also the new coach needs to go back to what was working for the Kiwis. Expansive footy thats played on the edges to create space for the halves and backs. As Sup said this middle ground play is not the go when youre the smaller team. Also this one off the ruck shotgun shit isnt fooling anyone when youre not winning the ruck in the first place.

Now the halves and the backs arent free from blame but the lynch mob mentality on Johnson is unwarranted and shows a lack of basic understanding of the game. The backs need to get the ball wider faster and Johnson can definitely organise the 5th tackle options better but you get that front foot ball and the time and space needed to create those options appear like magic then Shaun gets on the highlight reels and fans start riding his dick when it was really the forwards that did all the work. That being said Johnson is no General but he's never been one so Im not sure what people are expecting?

The other thing. The Kiwis dont play like the Warriors. Its the other way around. The Warriors play like that cause they have too many Kiwis who have been developed in New Zealand. Once you get your head around that it'll all make sense .

Back to the drawing board for Kidwell. The Aussies size is a bonus for the middle but get those boys back peddling and it soon unravels. Hopefully Kidwell better utilises the packs agility next game. He needs to work the edges a lot more. Go away from the centre and move the ball across more of the field. Commit more Aussie forward players to the line. I know Kidwell wants to stamp his own mark on the team but theres no excuse for removing all the width and decoy runners that kept the opposition guessing and honest.

SKD needs to go. More of a liability to the team then any other player I can remember ever playing for the Kiwis. Dont think I can remember a worse performance from an individual player. Pity our centre stocks are so low.

Hope Kidwell and the boys sort it out for the Four Nations or we wont even make the final...
I get what you say in respect to the forwards who were outplayed, and yes they had bad games apart from Taupau. But come on when SJ did have some time esp on 5th tackles he just did what he wanted. Nobody new he was going to do it,he didn't communicate properly. I'm sorry but as a no7 that is one of the prime rolls to DIRECT you team around the park. So if he's not a general then what the hell is he? His passing game is shite ATM, his kicking game is not much better and he doesn't run much oh and he isn't the greatest tackler? What's the harm in trying someone different? Or does he just instantly get his spot? Like someone mentioned before his name is bigger than the player. Look I hope it's because he is injured, so let's leave him at home for the 4 nations and rest him up. On the flip side he might have a blinder in England and prove me totally wrong( fuck I hope so) but I just can't see it.
 
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jonno

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The first 20 mins was very disappointing from our middle forwards, JWH, Bromich and JT. Those three can and should get us rolling forward a lot better than that.

Zero intensity out of the gate smacks of poor coaching to be fair. Who the fuck is Kidwell anyway.

And the 11 turnovers were killers. The Aussies did a great job of converting possession into points.

But maybe the most disturbing thing was the slow attempts to get up and play the ball on the last tackle. It was pathetic at times. On one occasion there was an Aussie player with nothing but an arm draped over our player, and he still took his time getting up.

Wayne Bennett said we don't look like we're playing for each other. Well he's still exactly right IMO.
 
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Sledge

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The first 20 mins was very disappointing from our middle forwards, JWH, Bromich and JT. Those three can and should get us rolling forward a lot better than that.

Zero intensity out of the gate smacks of poor coaching to be fair. Who the fuck is Kidwell anyway.

And the 11 turnovers were killers. The Aussies did a great job of converting possession into points.

But maybe the most disturbing thing was the slow attempts to get up and play the ball on the last tackle. It was pathetic at times. On one occasion there was an Aussie player with nothing but an arm draped over our player, and he still took his time getting up.

Wayne Bennett said we don't look like we're playing for each other. Well he's still exactly right IMO.
Maybe Mt Wellington was right, this is exactly the same problem the Warriors have, but we can't just blame the coach, these players don't just go to crap after a week with one coach (unless they are the Warriors and roosters players) Half the team looked undercooked, the Aussies had a warm up game against png didn't they? Hopefully we get better the more we play together.
 
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Inruin

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Kidwell has undone in one game what Kearney had built over a number of years. You dont bring back players in the first game who have caused issues previously - JWH. I don't have a good feeling about the next few years for the Kiwis
 
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That Kiwis pack needs to go take a look in the mirror. Full credit to Mel Meninga though. He did in one game what Tim Sheens couldnt and that was to not only copy the Kiwis big forward pack template but beat it for height, weight and athleticism. The Kiwis forwards may individually be better on paper but the Aussies collectively beat them hands down. As the old cliche goes 'better a star team then a team of stars'.

Anybody giving Shaun Johnson shit really needs to go back to league school and better educate yourselves.

ENGINE ROOM.

Thats where it all starts. Very rarely did either of our halves get front foot ball. Not sure what most of you guys dont understand about that but at that level you will never get anywhere without it. Sup42 Sup42 stance on Manu Vatuvei is all about that front foot momentum. The value of getting those sets off to good starts or having forwards capable of bending the line and getting quick plays of the ball are what separates the men from the boys.

Seriously look at the stats from Bro Faisal of the forwards and tell me otherwise.


To break that down even further:

Australia 922
New Zealand 667

The Aussie pack made a whopping 245 metres more than the 'best pack in the world'. With the exception of Martin Taupau not one of our forwards made over 100 metres. Taupau made 40 metres off his line break which pushed him over. That really is a pathetic effort considering the fact that we had the Dally M prop and lock playing for us.

Also the new coach needs to go back to what was working for the Kiwis. Expansive footy thats played on the edges to create space for the halves and backs. As Sup said this middle ground play is not the go when youre the smaller team. Also this one off the ruck shotgun shit isnt fooling anyone when youre not winning the ruck in the first place.

Now the halves and the backs arent free from blame but the lynch mob mentality on Johnson is unwarranted and shows a lack of basic understanding of the game. The backs need to get the ball wider faster and Johnson can definitely organise the 5th tackle options better but you get that front foot ball and the time and space needed to create those options appear like magic then Shaun gets on the highlight reels and fans start riding his dick when it was really the forwards that did all the work. That being said Johnson is no General but he's never been one so Im not sure what people are expecting?

The other thing. The Kiwis dont play like the Warriors. Its the other way around. The Warriors play like that cause they have too many Kiwis who have been developed in New Zealand. Once you get your head around that it'll all make sense .

Back to the drawing board for Kidwell. The Aussies size is a bonus for the middle but get those boys back peddling and it soon unravels. Hopefully Kidwell better utilises the packs agility next game. He needs to work the edges a lot more. Go away from the centre and move the ball across more of the field. Commit more Aussie forward players to the line. I know Kidwell wants to stamp his own mark on the team but theres no excuse for removing all the width and decoy runners that kept the opposition guessing and honest.

SKD needs to go. More of a liability to the team then any other player I can remember ever playing for the Kiwis. Dont think I can remember a worse performance from an individual player. Pity our centre stocks are so low.

Hope Kidwell and the boys sort it out for the Four Nations or we wont even make the final...
Completely agree regarding front football for halves to create with. However, that does not excuse SJ for the poor finish to sets that we had last night. I don't think anyone is expecting him to pull miracle plays out of his ass but some basic fundamentals would be nice. For the past few years the Kiwis have dominated the Kanagaroos in the forwards yet we don't see Cronk or Thurston go missing like SJ does during that time. In fact, it is these basics that they fall back on to try and keep them in the game. As much as SJ is a talent he is severely limited as a player IMO.
 
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Iafetas Kickstand Wang

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Kidwell, you are kidding. Taumalolo, Luke and Bromwich were on the bench for far too long, and how on earth he didn't hook SKD who was directly responsible for 4 Australian tries is beyond me.

Great test debut for Kata by the way. He is right up there as far as defensive centres go.

Johnson, he couldn't organise a root in a brothel. Being a test half is more than standing on the right edge as a playmaker exclusive to one back rower. Get your jersey dirty. And get the team in the positions you want for your last tackle kick. The organise of where to be for that final play needs urgent remedying.
 
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Last night was the Kiwis of old. Disorganised, dumb, lazy, and just plain outclassed.

Kahu did what he could
Rapana looked good
Nightingale was just a tackling target. Good on defence
Kata looked good with the limited ball he got and was good on defence
SKD should have been hooked at halftime. He had a bad day at the office but I would have him back based on what I know he can do
Leuluai tried
Johnson didn't
JT didn't impress but he needed to be on most of the game
Proctor was good
Tohu Harris. I can't actually remember seeing him. I know he played most of the game but ?
Bromwich and JWH made no impression hitting it up. For all his talk JWH showed why he has been left out for some time
Luke was a mixed bag
Brown is too slow to be an international hooker
Blair and Tapau showed what could have been
Mau went ok

And our huge forward pack looked small compared to Australia. Plenty to work on Kidwell.
 
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Completely agree regarding front football for halves to create with. However, that does not excuse SJ for the poor finish to sets that we had last night. I don't think anyone is expecting him to pull miracle plays out of his ass but some basic fundamentals would be nice. For the past few years the Kiwis have dominated the Kanagaroos in the forwards yet we don't see Cronk or Thurston go missing like SJ does during that time. In fact, it is these basics that they fall back on to try and keep them in the game. As much as SJ is a talent he is severely limited as a player IMO.
The problem with the end of our sets is that SJ is our only option. The opposition know that going in and zero in on him because of it. During the year i got so sick of us playing the ball on the left and then having to pass 2-3 times across the field just so SJ can kick. No half is going to have a great kicking game when they're the only option. It's too easy to zero in on them.
 
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Everyone appears keen to be putting the boot in into the team and the coach but if recent history can tell us anything its we're not a team that plays one of tests very well, the Aussies have the luxury of playing SOO and even though that's divided into two teams come test time it gives them a huge advantage in that during the year they had 3 intensive camps then games with which to build combinations, camaraderie, respect and trust for each other, they also have depth, depth and more depth.
This result was exactly what the bookies, pundits and experts were predicting, give our team and coach time to bed and hopefully in England we'll see much improved performances...
They'd better bloody improve couldn't stand to watch more of the same bullshit they laid down last night.
 
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That Kiwis pack needs to go take a look in the mirror. Full credit to Mel Meninga though. He did in one game what Tim Sheens couldnt and that was to not only copy the Kiwis big forward pack template but beat it for height, weight and athleticism. The Kiwis forwards may individually be better on paper but the Aussies collectively beat them hands down. As the old cliche goes 'better a star team then a team of stars'.

Anybody giving Shaun Johnson shit really needs to go back to league school and better educate yourselves.

ENGINE ROOM.

Thats where it all starts. Very rarely did either of our halves get front foot ball. Not sure what most of you guys dont understand about that but at that level you will never get anywhere without it. Sup42 Sup42 stance on Manu Vatuvei is all about that front foot momentum. The value of getting those sets off to good starts or having forwards capable of bending the line and getting quick plays of the ball are what separates the men from the boys.

Seriously look at the stats from Bro Faisal of the forwards and tell me otherwise.


To break that down even further:

Australia 922
New Zealand 667

The Aussie pack made a whopping 245 metres more than the 'best pack in the world'. With the exception of Martin Taupau not one of our forwards made over 100 metres. Taupau made 40 metres off his line break which pushed him over. That really is a pathetic effort considering the fact that we had the Dally M prop and lock playing for us.

Also the new coach needs to go back to what was working for the Kiwis. Expansive footy thats played on the edges to create space for the halves and backs. As Sup said this middle ground play is not the go when youre the smaller team. Also this one off the ruck shotgun shit isnt fooling anyone when youre not winning the ruck in the first place.

Now the halves and the backs arent free from blame but the lynch mob mentality on Johnson is unwarranted and shows a lack of basic understanding of the game. The backs need to get the ball wider faster and Johnson can definitely organise the 5th tackle options better but you get that front foot ball and the time and space needed to create those options appear like magic then Shaun gets on the highlight reels and fans start riding his dick when it was really the forwards that did all the work. That being said Johnson is no General but he's never been one so Im not sure what people are expecting?

The other thing. The Kiwis dont play like the Warriors. Its the other way around. The Warriors play like that cause they have too many Kiwis who have been developed in New Zealand. Once you get your head around that it'll all make sense .

Back to the drawing board for Kidwell. The Aussies size is a bonus for the middle but get those boys back peddling and it soon unravels. Hopefully Kidwell better utilises the packs agility next game. He needs to work the edges a lot more. Go away from the centre and move the ball across more of the field. Commit more Aussie forward players to the line. I know Kidwell wants to stamp his own mark on the team but theres no excuse for removing all the width and decoy runners that kept the opposition guessing and honest.

SKD needs to go. More of a liability to the team then any other player I can remember ever playing for the Kiwis. Dont think I can remember a worse performance from an individual player. Pity our centre stocks are so low.

Hope Kidwell and the boys sort it out for the Four Nations or we wont even make the final...
Are you kidding me?

So now all of a sudden our pack isnt good enough??? Even when stacked with recent finals experience and the first daly m forward awarded since god knows how long?

Agree those forwars stats look terrible but it doesnt help when you have 1/2 the sets being hit up by the backs.

And i'm sick of the SJ excuses. Its never his fault.

We failed because we had a shit game plan and coach. Oh god, this line sounds familiar as well.....
 
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Everyone appears keen to be putting the boot in into the team and the coach but if recent history can tell us anything its we're not a team that plays one of tests very well, the Aussies have the luxury of playing SOO and even though that's divided into two teams come test time it gives them a huge advantage in that during the year they had 3 intensive camps then games with which to build combinations, camaraderie, respect and trust for each other, they also have depth, depth and more depth.
This result was exactly what the bookies, pundits and experts were predicting, give our team and coach time to bed and hopefully in England we'll see much improved performances...
They'd better bloody improve couldn't stand to watch more of the same bullshit they laid down last night.

The aussies have the luxury of SOO? Really?
 
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olek_skillgannon
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shit team shit game
how can this team come from the same country the all blacks come from?
all blacks win with skill and daring
the kiwis are boring
they dont even offload in the tackle anymore
they need to go and ask the all blacks for some players and some help

they need an origin type game in nz
our best players going at each other just like they do in australia
its funny how they are quick to adopt the aussie structured boring style that has completely ruined the kiws, but they wont start up an origin series LOL
until then it will always be losses with a fluke win here and there
fluke wins here and there are good but when theres another team from your country that just smashes everyone and everything
you start forgetting about that other team that barely wins anything
 
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bruce

bruce

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KD needs to go. More of a liability to the team then any other player I can remember ever playing for the Kiwis. Dont think I can remember a worse performance from an individual player. Pity our centre stocks are so low.
Worse performance? JWH last night. That dude never has performed at test level. Those two left the rest of the team scrambling, it is as simple as that.
 
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