mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
That last fight is worth the price of admission lol
Who are the mangere fighters? Are they prems players or Boxers that play senior as lol
mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
Yeah that last fight will be hardcase. Both hardnuts players and will step up in the ring too. Also looking forward to the Oswell vs Malakai fight. Dont really know Os but Malakai is a beast.
Should be a great night...
ramraider78
LOL dry Slaughter - more Brawlers then boxers from hawks
2 of those central guys have had fights in the ring as corporate boxers - 1 of them is good , seen it myself.
Awesome concept but what charity is it fundraising for? HAHA
mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
Was keen to go but the hell if Im supporting Howick raise money for their rent a team Prems...
mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
Just putting it out there for discussion...
SUBMISSIONS TO ARL BOARD ON PREMIERSHIPS REVIEW RECOMMENDATIONS SUBMISSIONS ON THE FOX MEMORIAL- RECOMMENDATION 1
1 We strongly reject the Review Panel’s view that no changes are needed to the Fox Memorial Premiership (Fox).
2 The simple truth is the Fox no longer a genuine competition between Clubs where each Club uses their resources to develop their Junior players, and promotes the best of those players gradually into their Premier team, competing with the best of their players on the paddock.
2 Instead, large sums of money are spent by certain clubs (Pt Chev, Mt Albert, Papakura, and Howick in particular) enticing outside players to leave their poorer clubs of origin by paying them more money. When Richmond tried to get some of its best ex-Junior players back from other Fox clubs we were horrified to find we were unable to match $400-$600 per game and sign-on fees in the $1000s. Our player reimbursements for the season were approx $18,000 in total. Compare this to the $50-70,000 plus budgets of the top 4 richer clubs each year. We understand one club spent $20,000 just on its coach, more than our entire budget. It is no coincidence the club with the smallest budget is the club relegated. Otara will face a similar battle in 2015, although we certainly wish Otara luck.
3 The result of this money corruption is a predictable competition where the richest clubs who have “stolen” the best players from the poorer clubs consistently finish in the top 4 positions at the end of each year. Who would not predict Pt Chev, Mt Albert, Papakura and Howick to be the top 4 teams in 2015 ? And if they continue to outspend all other clubs, who would not predict the same finishes for the next 20 years ?
4 Predictable results are not good for the game or the Fox. Nor is an environment that rewards clubs using large sums of money to “steal” players from poorer clubs, to the detriment of Club loyalty and those Clubs dedicated to developing and promoting their Junior players.
5 The ARL Board is directly responsible for having allowed the current situation to develop, and for the good of the game, we ask that the Board take action by changing the rules.
6 New rules are needed that require Clubs to focus on developing their own Junior players and promote them into the Fox, instead of allowing richer Clubs to take the easy way out and “steal” the best players from poorer Clubs.
7 So what new rules will best achieve this ? A salary cap will not work because ARL does not have the resources to enforce it. Even the NRL struggles to enforce a NRL salary cap with a full-time team of accountants.
8 We submit that a Points Rating System must be introduced to effect the change needed. The points system we recommend is attached, and has been adapted by us to the Fox from the NSWRL points system as used by NSWRL.
9 The key to this points system is that a team of 17 is limited to a 100 points total, but Junior players from within that Club attract Zero points. So a Club can “steal” a maximum 10 players who have previously appeared in the Fox from rival Clubs, but to do so, will need to select 7 players from within its own ranks.
10 This will lead to a key change. Focus will change from “stealing” players from poorer clubs to a focus on spending more money and resources on their own Junior players and gradually promoting their best local players into Premiers teams.
11 The Fox will then become a more even, exciting and fairer competition. Teams can begin to compete on the merit of their own players promoted from within, not the size of a Club’s wallet.
12 By way of example, when Richmond played current champions Pt Chev in the last round of the Fox, Richmond’s Points Total would have been 12 (10 for 2 outside Sharman Cup players and 2 for “other”). We stand to be corrected, but we estimate Pt Chev would have had a Points Total of at least 180 points as Pt Chev did not have any players from within its ranks qualifying for Zero points. 12 v 180 says it all. And this would have been common for the majority of Fox games during the season where a poorer club played a richer club.
Benefits from changing the rules include:
1 Fox games will become more evenly-contested and unpredictable and therefore more exciting.
2 More Club members will support Fox games as they will have known the Junior players for a number of years and so will identify with and follow their Premier team more.
3 The playing standard will rise over time as richer Clubs increase spending on their Junior players and less on “stealing” players from poorer clubs.
4 The richer clubs retain the freedom to spend as they wish without fear of breaching a salary cap. But spending will reduce as they realise they cannot play as many “outside” players at any one time.
5 Poorer clubs can compete on a level playing field by developing their own “raw talent”, without needing $50-70,000 or more to compete against the big-spending Clubs.
6 Junior players across all Clubs will benefit from greater resources being diverted their way.
7 The Fox will move towards what it always should be- a competition between clubs, using players mostly from those clubs.
8 It will be easier for newly promoted teams to the Fox to be competitive, even though that new team cannot match the budgets of the richer clubs.
9 As Clubs adjust to the new rules, the Points Rating System can be easily tweaked to increase the ratio of players from within the Club and reduce the number of “stolen” players. In fact, we submit that after two years, from 2017 to 2021 one point be added to Categories A-D inclusive each year, so that by 2021 clubs will only be able to play a maximum of 6 “outsiders” at any one time as they will attract 15 points.
Disadvantages in the new rules are:
1 We can’t think of any- except that Pt Chev, Mt Albert, Papakura and Howick may oppose the change since it threatens their current supremacy over all other clubs, supremacy we emphasise primarily achieved through their bigger wallets “stealing” players from poorer Clubs.
In conclusion, we think by taking money out of the equation, the Points Rating System brings clarity to what is really going on with top level Rugby League in Auckland. We earnestly hope for the good of the game the Board will reconsider its position and implement the changes needed in the Fox.
SUBMISSIONS ON THE SHARMAN CUP AND PHELAN SHIELD- RECOMMENDATION 2-7
1 Our starting point is that no change is needed to these competitions. These competitions are a true competition between clubs from players within their ranks. Very few players are “stolen” by money payments from other Sharman Cup/Phelan Shield clubs.
2 We disagree with the recommendation of a grading round. A grading round produces instability as players aren’t sure if the club they join will be competing in the Sharman or
Phelan in the second half of the year. And the Club’s won’t have any certainty either.
3 It is very difficult to attract sponsors if the sponsor cannot be guaranteed participation in the Sharman.
4 A grading round discourages effort going into building up a squad as a Club cannot guarantee in which division it’s squad will compete the following year. A couple of “off-key”
games can result in demotion for a Sharman Club into the Phelan.
5 The Panel’s recommendation is unclear if points from the grading round carry forward to the second round, but either way it distorts the end points as the standard of competition in the grading round will be variable.
6 Changing to a grading round will be very unfair towards the top Phelan Club which, having worked very hard to achieve promotion in 2014, is now no longer eligible for
automatic promotion into the Sharman.
In conclusion, presumably the above reasons are why the Panel Review did not recommend a grading round for the Fox. We cannot think of any reason why the Sharman and Phelan competitions should be treated any differently, especially when considering the old adage “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. The Fox is broken and needs fixing. These competitions do not.
In summary, thank you for your time, and we hope the Board members will give our submissions their most serious consideration. When we as a Richmond Board make our
collective decisions, we do so with only one over-riding thought in mind- “What is best for Richmond”.
There is an opportunity now to make changes to the Fox that will significantly benefit our great game, and we hope all ARL Board members will provide true leadership, grasp the nettle even in the face of resistance, and make decisions with only one over - riding consideration in mind- “WHAT IS BEST FOR AUCKLAND RUGBY LEAGUE”. Thank you
for your time.
Richmond Rovers Rugby League and Sports Club Inc.
Gusetoa Fepuleai
Chairperson
SUBMISSIONS TO ARL BOARD ON PREMIERSHIPS REVIEW RECOMMENDATIONS SUBMISSIONS ON THE FOX MEMORIAL- RECOMMENDATION 1
1 We strongly reject the Review Panel’s view that no changes are needed to the Fox Memorial Premiership (Fox).
2 The simple truth is the Fox no longer a genuine competition between Clubs where each Club uses their resources to develop their Junior players, and promotes the best of those players gradually into their Premier team, competing with the best of their players on the paddock.
2 Instead, large sums of money are spent by certain clubs (Pt Chev, Mt Albert, Papakura, and Howick in particular) enticing outside players to leave their poorer clubs of origin by paying them more money. When Richmond tried to get some of its best ex-Junior players back from other Fox clubs we were horrified to find we were unable to match $400-$600 per game and sign-on fees in the $1000s. Our player reimbursements for the season were approx $18,000 in total. Compare this to the $50-70,000 plus budgets of the top 4 richer clubs each year. We understand one club spent $20,000 just on its coach, more than our entire budget. It is no coincidence the club with the smallest budget is the club relegated. Otara will face a similar battle in 2015, although we certainly wish Otara luck.
3 The result of this money corruption is a predictable competition where the richest clubs who have “stolen” the best players from the poorer clubs consistently finish in the top 4 positions at the end of each year. Who would not predict Pt Chev, Mt Albert, Papakura and Howick to be the top 4 teams in 2015 ? And if they continue to outspend all other clubs, who would not predict the same finishes for the next 20 years ?
4 Predictable results are not good for the game or the Fox. Nor is an environment that rewards clubs using large sums of money to “steal” players from poorer clubs, to the detriment of Club loyalty and those Clubs dedicated to developing and promoting their Junior players.
5 The ARL Board is directly responsible for having allowed the current situation to develop, and for the good of the game, we ask that the Board take action by changing the rules.
6 New rules are needed that require Clubs to focus on developing their own Junior players and promote them into the Fox, instead of allowing richer Clubs to take the easy way out and “steal” the best players from poorer Clubs.
7 So what new rules will best achieve this ? A salary cap will not work because ARL does not have the resources to enforce it. Even the NRL struggles to enforce a NRL salary cap with a full-time team of accountants.
8 We submit that a Points Rating System must be introduced to effect the change needed. The points system we recommend is attached, and has been adapted by us to the Fox from the NSWRL points system as used by NSWRL.
9 The key to this points system is that a team of 17 is limited to a 100 points total, but Junior players from within that Club attract Zero points. So a Club can “steal” a maximum 10 players who have previously appeared in the Fox from rival Clubs, but to do so, will need to select 7 players from within its own ranks.
10 This will lead to a key change. Focus will change from “stealing” players from poorer clubs to a focus on spending more money and resources on their own Junior players and gradually promoting their best local players into Premiers teams.
11 The Fox will then become a more even, exciting and fairer competition. Teams can begin to compete on the merit of their own players promoted from within, not the size of a Club’s wallet.
12 By way of example, when Richmond played current champions Pt Chev in the last round of the Fox, Richmond’s Points Total would have been 12 (10 for 2 outside Sharman Cup players and 2 for “other”). We stand to be corrected, but we estimate Pt Chev would have had a Points Total of at least 180 points as Pt Chev did not have any players from within its ranks qualifying for Zero points. 12 v 180 says it all. And this would have been common for the majority of Fox games during the season where a poorer club played a richer club.
Benefits from changing the rules include:
1 Fox games will become more evenly-contested and unpredictable and therefore more exciting.
2 More Club members will support Fox games as they will have known the Junior players for a number of years and so will identify with and follow their Premier team more.
3 The playing standard will rise over time as richer Clubs increase spending on their Junior players and less on “stealing” players from poorer clubs.
4 The richer clubs retain the freedom to spend as they wish without fear of breaching a salary cap. But spending will reduce as they realise they cannot play as many “outside” players at any one time.
5 Poorer clubs can compete on a level playing field by developing their own “raw talent”, without needing $50-70,000 or more to compete against the big-spending Clubs.
6 Junior players across all Clubs will benefit from greater resources being diverted their way.
7 The Fox will move towards what it always should be- a competition between clubs, using players mostly from those clubs.
8 It will be easier for newly promoted teams to the Fox to be competitive, even though that new team cannot match the budgets of the richer clubs.
9 As Clubs adjust to the new rules, the Points Rating System can be easily tweaked to increase the ratio of players from within the Club and reduce the number of “stolen” players. In fact, we submit that after two years, from 2017 to 2021 one point be added to Categories A-D inclusive each year, so that by 2021 clubs will only be able to play a maximum of 6 “outsiders” at any one time as they will attract 15 points.
Disadvantages in the new rules are:
1 We can’t think of any- except that Pt Chev, Mt Albert, Papakura and Howick may oppose the change since it threatens their current supremacy over all other clubs, supremacy we emphasise primarily achieved through their bigger wallets “stealing” players from poorer Clubs.
In conclusion, we think by taking money out of the equation, the Points Rating System brings clarity to what is really going on with top level Rugby League in Auckland. We earnestly hope for the good of the game the Board will reconsider its position and implement the changes needed in the Fox.
SUBMISSIONS ON THE SHARMAN CUP AND PHELAN SHIELD- RECOMMENDATION 2-7
1 Our starting point is that no change is needed to these competitions. These competitions are a true competition between clubs from players within their ranks. Very few players are “stolen” by money payments from other Sharman Cup/Phelan Shield clubs.
2 We disagree with the recommendation of a grading round. A grading round produces instability as players aren’t sure if the club they join will be competing in the Sharman or
Phelan in the second half of the year. And the Club’s won’t have any certainty either.
3 It is very difficult to attract sponsors if the sponsor cannot be guaranteed participation in the Sharman.
4 A grading round discourages effort going into building up a squad as a Club cannot guarantee in which division it’s squad will compete the following year. A couple of “off-key”
games can result in demotion for a Sharman Club into the Phelan.
5 The Panel’s recommendation is unclear if points from the grading round carry forward to the second round, but either way it distorts the end points as the standard of competition in the grading round will be variable.
6 Changing to a grading round will be very unfair towards the top Phelan Club which, having worked very hard to achieve promotion in 2014, is now no longer eligible for
automatic promotion into the Sharman.
In conclusion, presumably the above reasons are why the Panel Review did not recommend a grading round for the Fox. We cannot think of any reason why the Sharman and Phelan competitions should be treated any differently, especially when considering the old adage “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. The Fox is broken and needs fixing. These competitions do not.
In summary, thank you for your time, and we hope the Board members will give our submissions their most serious consideration. When we as a Richmond Board make our
collective decisions, we do so with only one over-riding thought in mind- “What is best for Richmond”.
There is an opportunity now to make changes to the Fox that will significantly benefit our great game, and we hope all ARL Board members will provide true leadership, grasp the nettle even in the face of resistance, and make decisions with only one over - riding consideration in mind- “WHAT IS BEST FOR AUCKLAND RUGBY LEAGUE”. Thank you
for your time.
Richmond Rovers Rugby League and Sports Club Inc.
Gusetoa Fepuleai
Chairperson
ramraider78
That's some powerful stuff toko, changes are definitely needed but I don't how it will all play out TBH, with back room deals always done with a hand shake and the old boys club lol ; Good on the Richmond lot and putting it out there IMO
mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
Nothing will happen. Rent-A-Team clubs will just laugh and carry on making a joke of the comp.
At the very least the ARL need to up the transfer fee's majorly. $10,000 will do it lol. Free if they are going back to their junior club or $1000 for any bottom 4 club from the previous season.
Whole things just a joke. Like I said, nothing will happen. ARL and the muppets that run the joint are useless as fuck. All just old boys pretending to give back to the game but really just sucking off its tit...
sooner or later someones gonna drop a dime to the ird... then these clubs up shit creek without a paddle, you know the tax department the ones who brought down al capone!
one for the suggestion box how about top 4 fox memorial clubs with cash and top 4 provincial sides outside of auckland form a legitimate semi professional nationwide nz comp with a salary cap of $120,000! and everything is done above board and professionally?
one for the suggestion box how about top 4 fox memorial clubs with cash and top 4 provincial sides outside of auckland form a legitimate semi professional nationwide nz comp with a salary cap of $120,000! and everything is done above board and professionally?
Last edited by a moderator:
mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
Anyone else go to the Fox fight night? Great night. Manu Vatuvei vs Nate Nauer from Mai FM fight was halirious lol. Both blindfolded and given huge gloves. Last fight between Tony Tuia and Visesio Setefano was an anticlimax. Like the Chris Taumoepeau and Nella Palavi fight...
ramraider78
mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
Yeah I went. Good fun. Tuia and Setefano fight was buildups. Heard they tried to have a go at the weigh in the day before lol...Did you go toko? I had work didn't finish till midnight
Congratulations to both the Mt Wellington Warriors & the Otara Scorpions for taking out their respective Grand Finals
I'd also like to pay a special tribute to the Scorpions, because I can remember back in the day when their club, over there at Ngati Otara Park, was a hotbed of violence, drugs, cheap piss & cheaper women, which made it a genuinely scarey place to be, so to turn it around into a legit family club like they have is a very commendable achievement
As an ex Otahuhu Leopard man, I fully agree with one of mt. wellington's previous post's & also couldn't also give two shits about who won the Fox, not just because I'm still loyal to my old club, but also because IMO both the Pirates & the Lions are nothing more than "chequebook teams" who buy their way to success
The achievement at the Otara club is definitely commendable but FYI, the turnaround (and prospering) of the club could not have been possible but for the "cheaper women" who have been staunch supporters and especially in present times included executive position holders in the club.
Your reference was a negative stereotyping of many fine Scorpion female supporters, staff and players.
I agree the club was rougher back in the day but in any case, there may be "cheap" men and women found around any rugby league clubrooms (I've met a few at Otahuhu functions).
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mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
Ah those were the days. Slappers all round and keen.
Went to the club after the Warriors game and it was only the players drinking their match pay and barely a women in sight. Huge sausage sizzle.
Pity how clubs that were once the hub of the community are now struggling to keep the lights on...
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